When is an action a sin?

Phantasman · #1 3rd August 2012, 02:00 PM

The Ten Commandments started our laws of what God requires of us in obedience to his will. Jesus gave us a clearer view by making us realize that we can sin within our hearts without committing the acts physically.

So when does the act of sinning actually take place?

A man see's a pretty woman walking down the street in a mini skirt. She has tan legs which are admirable to the man. He continues to admire the womans legs. Is he sinning?

If a person breaks into your house, and you have a gun, do you have the Christian right to kill that person? Maim? Harm at all? Own a gun?

Is it OK to lie in special cases? Like telling kids Santa Claus is coming? Or like telling the Girl Scouts you already bought cookies when you really didn't?

Is it possible for people to do unholy things on the Sabbath? What would that be? Work? Fix food?

Maybe you van cheat just a little on taxes to get a better break because it's the government and it doesn't matter because they don't believe in God anymore anyway?

I just think that sometimes people come out with things that they think are sins, when they probably aren't (judging) and it comes down to the intent of the persons spirit whether they are performing an action that is taking them further from God or and action that leads them in a direction that eventually brings them closer into a relationship with God.

Obscure · #2 3rd August 2012, 11:29 PM

This is an interesting topic, although "cheating on taxes" is obviously not a sin, for government is doing the stealing.

Johnnz · #3 3rd August 2012, 11:32 PM

Lawmakers love questions like yours. The Pharisees in NT times had huge volumes of laws defining sin.

We are to focus on living out our lives in relationship with Jesus. That brings life - His eternal life. When we don't do that something dies. There really is quite a contrast.

Take your pretty woman. We can see in her attractiveness something of the handiwork of God and worship. Or we can thing only in sexual terms and our focus becomes part of our body as we let our thoughts go on. One gives life, the other death.

John
NZ

Xpistis sopheiaX · #4 4th August 2012, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Obscure

This is an interesting topic, although "cheating on taxes" is obviously not a sin, for government is doing the stealing.

I'm kind of getting sick of this idea. Our countries are both democracies. If the majority of us didn't believe in paying taxes for services than we wouldn't. Some people obviously don't think that is fair, but we should all know by now that life isn't fair.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesars."

Xpistis sopheiaX · #5 4th August 2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnz

in her attractiveness something of the handiwork of God and worship. Or we can thing only in sexual terms and our focus becomes part of our body as we let our thoughts go on. One gives life, the other death.

John
NZ

I think it's ridiculous that Christians tend to associate sex attraction and sexual thoughts/desires with sin.

Sex is the 2nd strongest desire humans have after eating. If God didn't want sex to be so powerful than it wouldn't be. Being horny and wanting to have sex is part of what makes us humans. If we try rid ourselves of one of our most fundamental desires than we are stripping away part of our humanity. What purpose does that serve? Does it glorify God, or does it simply demean what we are?

Xpistis sopheiaX · #6 4th August 2012, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Phantasman

The Ten Commandments started our laws of what God requires of us in obedience to his will. Jesus gave us a clearer view by making us realize that we can sin within our hearts without committing the acts physically.

So when does the act of sinning actually take place?

A man see's a pretty woman walking down the street in a mini skirt. She has tan legs which are admirable to the man. He continues to admire the womans legs. Is he sinning?

If a person breaks into your house, and you have a gun, do you have the Christian right to kill that person? Maim? Harm at all? Own a gun?

Is it OK to lie in special cases? Like telling kids Santa Claus is coming? Or like telling the Girl Scouts you already bought cookies when you really didn't?

Is it possible for people to do unholy things on the Sabbath? What would that be? Work? Fix food?

Maybe you van cheat just a little on taxes to get a better break because it's the government and it doesn't matter because they don't believe in God anymore anyway?

I just think that sometimes people come out with things that they think are sins, when they probably aren't (judging) and it comes down to the intent of the persons spirit whether they are performing an action that is taking them further from God or and action that leads them in a direction that eventually brings them closer into a relationship with God.

I think intention does mean something when it comes to the greyer areas of morality, but there is plenty of black and white where I think intention doesn't matter at all.

Sin isn't something I personally worry about much anymore.

Christ says: "Don't tell lies and don't do things that you hate." and "Treat your neighbor as yourself." IMO if you keep those things in mind you shouldn't have many problems.

Phantasman · #7 4th August 2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Xpistis sopheiaX

I think intention does mean something when it comes to the greyer areas of morality, but there is plenty of black and white where I think intention doesn't matter at all.

Sin isn't something I personally worry about much anymore.

Christ says: "Don't tell lies and don't do things that you hate." and "Treat your neighbor as yourself." IMO if you keep those things in mind you shouldn't have many problems.

I was in the Baptist area and a man was asking if masturbation was a sin. Everyone was coming back at him quoting the "if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart...........committing adultery" saying from Jesus and was telling the man he was sinning.

So I guess a person that has a perversion for womens shoes gets a free pass since it's not flesh he is masturbating to, or a woman for that matter. Is it still a sin?

Johnnz · #8 4th August 2012, 04:56 PM

If we see sin as death ie a reduction in some way of the life God has provided for us to live, then that clearly is not what sex is about.

John
NZ

Xpistis sopheiaX · #9 5th August 2012, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Phantasman

I was in the Baptist area and a man was asking if masturbation was a sin. Everyone was coming back at him quoting the "if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart...........committing adultery" saying from Jesus and was telling the man he was sinning.

This isn't a major issue to me but it is something I would question. Our bodies are essentially designed for "lust."

I don't think you tell a cat it is evil for eating mice, or tell spiders not to hide in the dark. Why tell people not to desire others sexually?

I think this is really one of those grey areas. Intense sexual longing and desire can't be a sin b/c it is part of being a human. I think what Christ is referring to as "lust" must cross a line somewhere. I don't know what that line would be, and I wish He'd have elaborated on it.

As for masturbation, the idea that it is somehow a sin is also ridiculous to me. It's something your body is designed to do. Especially considering the fact that you are physically ready for sex as a child, hormonally driven to it day in and day out, and then can't get married for another 10+ years or however long.

Christians seem so terrified of their own bodies. It is absolutely true that sex causes a lot of problems, and learning restraint builds a certain amount of character. However to start stripping away parts of your own humanity is not healthy.

I read once that if one focuses on denying themselves any pleasure as a spiritual practice, then they end up worshiping their own body by denying it. The self-worship is an inverted image of hedonism, which is also worship of one's own body, but it is still worshiping the body nonetheless. I'd have to agree with that completely.

This is also where I would have to call bull---- on Buddhism. The idea that eliminating desire to achieve some sort of enlightenment or detachment from the physical world is IMHO absolute garbage. If we are made in the image of God's spirit than desire is good, and it is part of who we are.

If I desire than God desires also. I desire a lot of things, and that doesn't bind me to the physical world at all, and it doesn't mean any of my desire is wrong or evil. All evil comes from spiritual blindness, not from attachment or desire.

There has to be some acceptable middle ground where we are not seeking only to satisfy our physical sensations, but we are also not torturing ourselves by fighting what we are.

Johnnz · #10 5th August 2012, 04:00 AM

We have long forgotten that the real issues are life vs death, not right or wrong. The latter naturally follows from getting the first one right. When Jesus said "if you love m eyou will keep my commandments' He did not mean obey and then I will love you. Rather, obedience flows naturally from our love.

John
NZ