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  #31  
Old 13th July 2012, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Redac View Post
Glad to be here.




A lot there I could discuss with you, but I feel like it'd be moving a little far off-topic. I did write a brief response to you in my edited post above.
What I'm saying isn't really a "it's true because the Bible says so". It is true because there is a God, He is of good character and absolutely honest, has told us enough about the realities of our existence that we can verify as being true and can be trusted on those things He talks about but does not bother 'proving'. One of the reasons I trust God is that I've been the recipient of many of the promises He makes in the Bible and indeed, the many changes in my life are things He explains will happen in the life of a follower of Jesus and I noticed the changes first and then I came across the scripture which explained them.
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  #32  
Old 13th July 2012, 02:45 AM
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I contributed on my initial post. However, it was much less sexy than a rehash of biblical self-authentication.

Have you ever read the myth of Sisyphus? The reason he keeps having to push that rock up a hill is because of hubris.
  #33  
Old 13th July 2012, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tomas de Torquemada View Post
Have you ever read the myth of Sisyphus? The reason he keeps having to push that rock up a hill is because of hubris.
And...?

ETA: I don't know how redemptive suffering qualifies as an ethical concept. Perhaps you could explain that.
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  #34  
Old 13th July 2012, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jade Margery View Post
I thought Islam -was- part of the Judeo-Christian Tradition. They just have a third testament, so to speak.
I think 'Judeo-Christian' is usually taken to mean of the Old and New Testament, not the Qur'an.
  #35  
Old 13th July 2012, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Elioenai26 View Post
Yes there are. They are enumerated in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount.

I have emphasized certain verses in bold to show how it is applicable to the OP.
Thanks for making an informed response. A refreshing change from juvenile bickering.

So would you say that understanding the Sermon on the Mount is key to understanding the ethical base of the New Testament?
  #36  
Old 13th July 2012, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Elioenai26 View Post
Socrates, in the quotes you provided, is telling us to not retaliate with wrong for wrong done to us. This is what most people consider to be honorable and virtuous no doubt. However, Jesus tells us to go one step beyond what is the norm or standard of virtue. He tells us to offer the other cheek, to go the extra mile, to give the coat as well as the shirt, and to turn away no one who asks for help.
But the vast majority of Christians do not interpret the "turn the other cheek" stuff in a truly non-retaliatory way or otherwise special way.

I've had many Christians here explaining to me why it's perfectly fine to shoot burglars to death, nuke cities because their leaders are jerks, lock up drugs dealers for their entire life, sue people who punch you, etc etc etc.

If 99% of Christians go "nah, that verse doesn't apply here" when there are difficult questions of non-retaliation or greed (most people here would fall into the "filthy rich" category ->> camel, eye, needle), can Christ's teachings on the subject really be understood to be "exceptional"? If His followers think that His teachings basically mean that you should follow your common sense, but maybe dress it up with a bit of pious nonsense when your common sense tells you to do something that kinda sorta overlaps with your religion?

The uniqueness of ethical concepts isn't that important to me. If some random dude in China wrote down Jesus's teachings in 500 BC (someone probably did), that in no way diminishes His message, imho. The important question is in how much His teachings differ from the stuff that we would do anyway. And the answer to that is: not much. As the culture changes, Christianity is changed (by it's followers) in order to fit the culture.
  #37  
Old 13th July 2012, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ThinkFreeDom View Post
Are there any ethical concepts which can be attributed solely to the Judeo-Christian tradition?
I think this is unlikely. Any ethical concept worth having would be readily adopted by anyone who happens to like it, whatever their faith. Therefore, in time good ethical concepts will tend to become practically universal.
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Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women
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Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
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  #38  
Old 13th July 2012, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Elioenai26 View Post
This is referred to as transubstantiation and is a predominantly Catholic doctrine.

Most Christian denominations see the blood and body of Christ as being symbolically, not actually represented by the wine and bread.
It is in fact the other way round. Most Christians (ie all apostolic churches) accept the Real Presence. Some more modern denominations don't.
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A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench.
Isaiah 42:3

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women
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Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
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  #39  
Old 13th July 2012, 04:07 AM
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True love, true guilt.
  #40  
Old 13th July 2012, 06:57 AM
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To bounce off of Elioenai26, you can trace a chunk of that back to Mount Sinai and the 10 commandments...God's moral law. These are a reflection of who God is.
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