Is the cross of Jesus compatible with evolution?

good brother · #1 11th July 2012, 11:18 AM

(Before I begin this thread I wish to state that this is NOT just another creation v evolution thread. Plenty of those exist, if you want to take part in one of those threads, go find one. This thread is solely for the purpose of discussing the cross of Calvary and the theory of evolution. Mainly, this thread will be for Christians who adhere to long time spans such as the Gap theory, Theistic evolution, or other similarly held beliefs that attempt to reconcile the belief in evolution and the Bible. Please be respectful with all your answers and keep on point. Again, if you wish to discuss creation versus evolution, find a different thread. Thank you.)

Is the cross of Calvary compatible with evolution? That is the question. Jesus whole mission here on Earth was to become sin though He had no sin and be the perfect sacrifice to be victorious over sin and death. According to the Bible, it was the action of one man that brought about sin and death into this world. Jesus came to do away with sin and death. If evolution is true, or if Adam really wasn't the first person, then the cross cannot be compatible with that view as death would have been a part of life for "millions and millions of years" prior to the first recorded history.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

In Christ, GB

CabVet · #2 11th July 2012, 12:15 PM

Evolution is a biological process, it has absolutely no relation to sin, Jesus, any cross or religion.

good brother · #3 11th July 2012, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by CabVet

Evolution is a biological process, it has absolutely no relation to sin, Jesus, any cross or religion.

You are correct there, evolution has no relation to Jesus. If evolution is true, then Jesus's death (if the recorded history is correct) was absolutely meaningless as death has been, is, and always will be part of life. If the Bible is correct in that Jesus came to have victory over death and eventually abolish death itself, then evolution cannot be true as evolution teaches that those who are fit survive and those who are not, die. According to ToE, that's the way it's always been and that's the way it will always be. The two (evolution and Jesus) have no relationship whatsoever.

In Christ, GB

CabVet · #4 11th July 2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by good brother

You are correct there, evolution has no relation to Jesus. If evolution is true, then Jesus's death (if the recorded history is correct) was absolutely meaningless as death has been, is, and always will be part of life. If the Bible is correct in that Jesus came to have victory over death and eventually abolish death itself, then evolution cannot be true as evolution teaches that those who are fit survive and those who are not, die. According to ToE, that's the way it's always been and that's the way it will always be. The two (evolution and Jesus) have no relationship whatsoever.

In Christ, GB

Yeah, I obviously wasn't clear enough. So let's pick on other branches of science, shall we?

If gravity is true, Jesus did not walk on water.

If biology is true, Jesus did not resurrect.

The part of your post that I highlighted in blue however, is true.

You should learn what evolution is before you start saying what it "teaches". Evolution has nothing to say about death. You can live to be a million years, if you don't leave descendents you are an evolutionary dead end. But if you make 20 babies by age 20 and die at 21 you are evolutionarily successful. But that is from a genetic point of view.

You can take the same reasoning to culture. The more people you influence with your ideas, the more culturally "fit" you will be. How many followers does Jesus have today again? Last time I checked it was a few billlion, but I might be mistaken. So, from an evolutionary perspective, Jesus was very "fit", and left a lot of "descendents", thank you very much. The only people that may be in the same league are Mohammed and Buddha, maybe Confucius.

AV1611VET · #5 11th July 2012, 12:49 PM

Good thread!

I take it you are referring to our Sin Nature?

CabVet · #6 11th July 2012, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Good thread!

I take it you are referring to our Sin Nature?

Good thread? What is next? Is mathematics compatible with the feeding of the five thousand?

And-U-Say · #7 11th July 2012, 01:01 PM

No, they are not compatible. Jesus came to earth as a sacrificial lamb to atone for something. Leaving aside the fact that the Old Testament nowhere mentions that the long list of various sacrifices in Leviticus are for Adam's sin, the New Testament suggests that the purpose of Jesus is to atone for sin and that means original sin (it had to be for original sin... if not, there were many who realized that average everyday sin did not need a savior. it had to be something really bad, so Paul made up this original sin thing so he could con EVERYONE into his new religion, nobody could escape original sin as you were born with it. Way to go, Paul!). With Evolution, there is no Adam and thus no silly serpent story and thus no original sin.

They are incompatible.

AV1611VET · #8 11th July 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by CabVet

Good thread? What is next? Is mathematics compatible with the feeding of the five thousand?

Jesus died on the Cross for those who have the Sin Nature.

Those who have the Sin Nature are the offspring of Adam, who was created in BC 4004.

What attests to the existence of the Sin Nature in man is universal death.

Evolution is incompatible with the Cross of Calvary, since evolution has animals dying prior to BC 4004.

CabVet · #9 11th July 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Jesus died on the Cross for those who have the Sin Nature.

Those who have the Sin Nature are the offspring of Adam, who was created in BC 4004.

What attests to the existence of the Sin Nature in man is universal death.

Evolution is incompatible with the Cross of Calvary, since evolution has animals dying prior to BC 4004.

For the millionth time, evolution predicts nothing about death. If there are enough resources, from an evolutionary perspective, you can have a population growing and evolving forever without any individual dying. The newborns that look different will just occupy another niche.

Your beef here is with biology in general, more specifically aging.

freezerman2000 · #10 11th July 2012, 01:15 PM

Christ's death is about forgiveness of sin..NOT our origins.
Neither has anything to do with the other.