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Origins Theology Forum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.

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  #11  
Old 11th July 2012, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Assyrian View Post
1Co 15:47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
Jesus was also composed of flesh and blood and was of the earth. Paul was highlighting the main influence and mission of each person. Just like he didn't have to give Christ's earthly nature when describing the role of same, he didn't have to give Adam's spiritual nature when highlighting Adam's role.

Both cases are essentially about Creationism and its role. That is, the movement of life towards the spirit and away from matter, or into matter and away from the spirit. These are changes well underway with milestones (see 1 Cor 15:51) and form the fabric of religion.
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  #12  
Old 11th July 2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg1234 View Post
Jesus was also composed of flesh and blood and was of the earth. Paul was highlighting the main influence and mission of each person. Just like he didn't have to give Christ's earthly nature when describing the role of same, he didn't have to give Adam's spiritual nature when highlighting Adam's role.

Both cases are essentially about Creationism and its role. That is, the movement of life towards the spirit and away from matter, or into matter and away from the spirit. These are changes well underway with milestones (see 1 Cor 15:51) and form the fabric of religion.
I am curious even though I think I know the answer. In Romans 5 Paul discusses Adam's sin and it's effect on humanity. Do you believe his argument is that all of humanity is sinful because of the sin of Adam and Eve? I'm not trying to be asinine here, it seems crystal clear to me and I sometimes wonder if other Creationists are aware of this as a doctrinal issue.
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  #13  
Old 11th July 2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mark kennedy View Post
I am curious even though I think I know the answer. In Romans 5 Paul discusses Adam's sin and it's effect on humanity. Do you believe his argument is that all of humanity is sinful because of the sin of Adam and Eve?
Yes, I believe so.
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  #14  
Old 11th July 2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mark kennedy View Post
That's actually a good question, did a google search and found this:
We are all familiar with the name "Adam" as found in the book of Genesis, but what does it really mean? Let us begin by looking at its roots. This word/name is a child root derived from the parent דם meaning, "blood". By placing the letter א in front of the parent root, the child root אדם is formed and is related in meaning to דם (blood).

By examing a few other words derived from the child root אדם we can see a common meaning in them all. The Hebrew word אדמה (adamah) is the feminine form of אדם meaning "ground" (see Genesis 2:7). The word/name אדום (Edom) means "red". Each of these words have the common meaning of "red". Dam is the "red" blood, adamah is the "red" ground, edom is the color "red" and adam is the "red" man. There is one other connection between "adam" and "adamah" as seen in Genesis 2:7 which states that "the adam" was formed out of the "adamah".

In the ancient Hebrew world, a person’s name was not simply an identifier but descriptive of one's character. As Adam was formed out of the ground, his name identifies his origins.
Name of the Month - Adam By: Jeff A. Benner
Thanks. Now we may think that Adam was made of red clay. Geologically, it does mean something. We could not have red clay without having water, oxygen and iron. The earth had a lot of water and oxygen way before the Noah's Flood.
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  #15  
Old 11th July 2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mark kennedy View Post
Very true, but Strong's claims the New Testament word's Hebrew origin is אָדָם (H121).

Strong's H120 - 'adam אָדָם

Translated in the KJV authorized version:
  • man 408 times,
  • men 121 times,
  • Adam 13 times,
  • person(s) 9 times,
  • hypocrite 1 time
This is in the Blue Letter Bible as a reference. Do note that all of the races of 'man' are descended from Adam
If you notice in the Blue Letter Bible, the reference to all the race of men being descended from Adam is in square brackets.
[“The Arabs distinguish two races of men: one red, ruddy, which we call white, the other black.” Gesen. add. But both these races are sprung from Adam]
Gesenius wrote the Lexicon in Latin. What Blue Letter Bible have is the 1857 translation into English by Samuel P. Tregelles which is based on the Latin Lexicon with additions from Gesenius's Latin Thesaurus. Inside the square brackets, the part in quotations about the two races of men is from the Thesaurus hence the 'Gesen. add.'. The part that isn't in quotation marks is Tregelle's own addition to the lexicon.

If you want to check a translation of the Lexicon and Thesaurus that doesn't have these comments added in there is Edward Robinson's 1865 translation which formed the basis of the Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon. You can find here:

A Hebrew and English lexicon of the Old Testament, including the Biblical Chaldee. From the Latin of William Gesenius ..

The section on Adam is on page 14.

Even if it was Gesenius who said that, it isn't the role of Lexicon to give us lexicographer's own theological views or how he understand the terms outside of what it says in the text.

which is probably why a form of it became synonymous with man.:
That has to be pretty speculative, of course all the etymologies are. We simply don't know. However from Genesis 1:27 and 5:2 male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created, it was male and female people, whom God named Adam. If the individual was called Adam it is because it was God's name for people, the human race.
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  #16  
Old 11th July 2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
What does the "red" mean? Is it the color red?

If so, why? Was Adam red?
Europeans call themselves white, though only albinos qualify. In the Middle East people's colour is nearer to the red earth colour the Hebrew bible calls adamah. Hence the story of God making Adam from the adamah.
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  #17  
Old 11th July 2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Assyrian View Post
Europeans call themselves white, though only albinos qualify. In the Middle East people's colour is nearer to the red earth colour the Hebrew bible calls adamah. Hence the story of God making Adam from the adamah.
Fine. Adam was red. Eve might not be (the bone of Adam shouldn't be red). That is interesting.

Could I say that Adam was red because of his name?
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  #18  
Old 11th July 2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Assyrian View Post
If you notice in the Blue Letter Bible, the reference to all the race of men being descended from Adam is in square brackets.
[“The Arabs distinguish two races of men: one red, ruddy, which we call white, the other black.” Gesen. add. But both these races are sprung from Adam]
Gesenius wrote the Lexicon in Latin. What Blue Letter Bible have is the 1857 translation into English by Samuel P. Tregelles which is based on the Latin Lexicon with additions from Gesenius's Latin Thesaurus. Inside the square brackets, the part in quotations about the two races of men is from the Thesaurus hence the 'Gesen. add.'. The part that isn't in quotation marks is Tregelle's own addition to the lexicon.

If you want to check a translation of the Lexicon and Thesaurus that doesn't have these comments added in there is Edward Robinson's 1865 translation which formed the basis of the Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon. You can find here:

A Hebrew and English lexicon of the Old Testament, including the Biblical Chaldee. From the Latin of William Gesenius ..

The section on Adam is on page 14.

Even if it was Gesenius who said that, it isn't the role of Lexicon to give us lexicographer's own theological views or how he understand the terms outside of what it says in the text.

That has to be pretty speculative, of course all the etymologies are. We simply don't know. However from Genesis 1:27 and 5:2 male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created, it was male and female people, whom God named Adam. If the individual was called Adam it is because it was God's name for people, the human race.
Wives still take their husbands name, none so blind...

Originally Posted by Assyrian View Post
Even if it was Gesenius who said that, it isn't the role of Lexicon to give us lexicographer's own theological views or how he understand the terms outside of what it says in the text.
No, that's your job, it probably never occurred to you that a standard exists apart from you private interpretation.
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Last edited by mark kennedy; 11th July 2012 at 09:58 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11th July 2012, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
Fine. Adam was red. Eve might not be (the bone of Adam shouldn't be red). That is interesting.

Could I say that Adam was red because of his name?
I'm taking an art class, I have discovered that all people are orange. I expect it wasn't a deep dark or a pale white. The name for Eve means 'mother' if memory serves because she was our first parent as well.
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Old 11th July 2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mark kennedy View Post
Wives still take their husbands name, none so blind...
Come on. You know better than that.

Not only are fewer women in our culture taking their husband's names; in some cultures that has never been a standard practice.
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