Gun control will be under Treaty administered by UN

cow451 · #31 3rd July 2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by TeddyReceptus

LOL. Yeah, I hear that some people get that from their church. It never made any sense to me.

Lot's of stuff I heard in Sunday School as a kid fell into that category.

BoltNut · #32 3rd July 2012, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by TeddyReceptus

LOL. Yeah, I hear that some people get that from their church. It never made any sense to me.

I grew up with guns. Almost all males in my family were avid hunters, certainly on my dad's side. I got a gun permit long before I could even drive. Took all the training, grew up in the millieu.

My dad wasn't a frothing second amendment advocate, the topic never really came up at home.

As I grew up and moved away from home I drifted away from hunting (never very good at it), and moved into town and have pretty much lived in town since and in my 48 years on this big blue marble I've never really felt that a gun would do me much good in life.

I suspect that the people who think of guns as protection against some ill-defined bogey man would, themselves, not be able to shoot another human being if push came to shove. They'd probably end up like the statistics showing that households with guns usually end up with someone in the family getting hurt by it long before any "intruder" or "invading army" got shot.

So I'm always confused why people who consider themselves strongly Christian would feel that gun ownership is so very, very important. Do they live in a much more hate-filled world? Do they fancy themselves under attack such that they'd need to shoot someone? Or do they all hunt like fiends?

I'm just curious why there's even this correlation at all.

I hope you don't mind that I throw something into this discussion. Even though I, like yourself, grew up around guns and yet never got into hunting, I understand the desire of many to own a weapon. I do consider myself to be a Christian, and I also value every right the Constitution gives us including the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not going to start quoting a bunch of verses in scripture, however, one that comes to mind is Luke 22:36.

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Jesus was telling the disciples that they would need to protect themselves while going out to preach the Good News. It was a dangerous world out there. If it was against the teachings of Jesus for us to protect ourselves, why would he instruct his disciples to buy a sword? Just a thought.

mpok1519 · #33 3rd July 2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by SharonL

That's ok with you - to have the UN control our rules on gun control?

It regulates international commerce of firearms. Yknow, so gun manufacturers don't sell guns to terrorists and radicalist organizations? Why oppose this?

mpok1519 · #34 3rd July 2012, 06:32 PM

Can this scripture be used for justification for biological, nuclear and chemical armament? I mean, if the potential to eradicate mankind from the planet as being "prepared"...

Originally Posted by BoltNut

I hope you don't mind that I throw something into this discussion. Even though I, like yourself, grew up around guns and yet never got into hunting, I understand the desire of many to own a weapon. I do consider myself to be a Christian, and I also value every right the Constitution gives us including the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not going to start quoting a bunch of verses in scripture, however, one that comes to mind is Luke 22:36.

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Jesus was telling the disciples that they would need to protect themselves while going out to preach the Good News. It was a dangerous world out there. If it was against the teachings of Jesus for us to protect ourselves, why would he instruct his disciples to buy a sword? Just a thought.

BoltNut · #35 3rd July 2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by mpok1519

It regulates international commerce of firearms. Yknow, so gun manufacturers don't sell guns to terrorists and radicalist organizations? Why oppose this?

Might be worth looking at what some critics are saying instead of just assuming what the gun ban does or doesn't do.

U.N. Agreement Should Have All Gun Owners Up In Arms - Forbes
"While the terms have yet to be made public, if passed by the U.N. and ratified by our Senate, it will almost certainly force the U.S. to:

Enact tougher licensing requirements, creating additional bureaucratic red tape for legal firearms ownership.
Confiscate and destroy all “unauthorized” civilian firearms (exempting those owned by our government of course).
Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of all semi-automatic weapons (any that have magazines even though they still operate in the same one trigger pull – one single “bang” manner as revolvers, a simple fact the anti-gun media never seem to grasp).
Create an international gun registry, clearly setting the stage for full-scale gun confiscation.
In short, overriding our national sovereignty, and in the process, providing license for the federal government to assert preemptive powers over state regulatory powers guaranteed by the Tenth Amendment in addition to our Second Amendment rights."

Any time we, as Americans are willing to surrender any part of our sovereignty to another entity, it should be analyzed extensively. Hopefully, our elected officials say, "absolutely not" to this treaty.

BoltNut · #36 3rd July 2012, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by mpok1519

Can this scripture be used for justification for biological, nuclear and chemical armament? I mean, if the potential to eradicate mankind from the planet as being "prepared"...

I really don't see how. Jesus dealt with how we should do things on a personal level, not necessarily on any kind of global scale. I can't, however, stop you from making this kind of ridiculous leap in how to interpret the Scriptures. How you could make any connection between Luke 22:36 and weapons of mass destruction is a bit of a mystery. Even though I did find your response a bit humorous.

cow451 · #37 3rd July 2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by BoltNut

Might be worth looking at what some critics are saying instead of just assuming what the gun ban does or doesn't do.

U.N. Agreement Should Have All Gun Owners Up In Arms - Forbes
"While the terms have yet to be made public, if passed by the U.N. and ratified by our Senate, it will almost certainly force the U.S. to:

Enact tougher licensing requirements, creating additional bureaucratic red tape for legal firearms ownership.

Confiscate and destroy all “unauthorized” civilian firearms (exempting those owned by our government of course).

Ban the trade, sale and private ownership of all semi-automatic weapons (any that have magazines even though they still operate in the same one trigger pull – one single “bang” manner as revolvers, a simple fact the anti-gun media never seem to grasp).

Create an international gun registry, clearly setting the stage for full-scale gun confiscation.

In short, overriding our national sovereignty, and in the process, providing license for the federal government to assert preemptive powers over state regulatory powers guaranteed by the Tenth Amendment in addition to our Second Amendment rights."

Any time we, as Americans are willing to surrender any part of our sovereignty to another entity, it should be analyzed extensively. Hopefully, our elected officials say, "absolutely not" to this treaty.

By his own admission, the "terms" of the agreement have not been released. He is speculating/ranting.

TeddyReceptus · #38 3rd July 2012, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by BoltNut

I really don't see how. Jesus dealt with how we should do things on a personal level, not necessarily on any kind of global scale. I can't, however, stop you from making this kind of ridiculous leap in how to interpret the Scriptures. How you could make any connection between Luke 22:36 and weapons of mass destruction is a bit of a mystery. Even though I did find your response a bit humorous.

Yes, a nuclear device would tend to be more than just for personal protection. So it would be only useful as a deterrent to people wanting to do you harm while you are out preaching the Gospel.

But you must admit, people would probably let you preach as long as you like!

BoltNut · #39 3rd July 2012, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by cow451

By his own admission, the "terms" of the agreement have not been released. He is speculating/ranting.

Okay, since the article is about a year old, I'll concede that there is some ranting going on. We are now closer to this treaty being voted on, but is it something that the public can see in it's entirety? Can we see any "details" about it, or are we only given little snippets of what is involved? I've done some searches about it and can make some judgements based on what can be found, but there is not a lot of detail available. People are using past statements and historical arguments to cast doubt on the U N Treaty. There are some 130 US lawmakers that still have a lot of concern about the treaty and it's potential implications on the 2nd Amendment in America. The UN has never looked on our individual right to keep and bear arms, with anything other than contempt. I doubt seriously that they have changed their minds.

Some would say that those against any kind of arms agreement like this, are making statements without knowing the facts. In the same way, however, those who support measures like this are supportive without knowing the facts. I don't really trust the UN to craft a treaty on small arms like this without, in some way, weakening our Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights. It's something they have wanted to do for many years.

BoltNut · #40 3rd July 2012, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by TeddyReceptus

Yes, a nuclear device would tend to be more than just for personal protection. So it would be only useful as a deterrent to people wanting to do you harm while you are out preaching the Gospel.

But you must admit, people would probably let you preach as long as you like!

You bet. Probably give you a standing ovation, too.