The Familiar Spirits

2 Thessalonians 2:11 speaks out all though it is speaking of Christ's return.

Does God lie? An Exegesis of 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Originally Posted by canadianicon25

Evil comes in the form of sword

What do you mean by this?

For example, and you could run "evil, and sword" just as you could see how "tribulation and anguish" upon every soul of man who doeth evil first of the Jew and of the Gentile. Just as with Saul an evil spirit from the Lord come to trouble him.

But here, a form of retribution, which isnt evil in itself, but the experience of the same (or how it might be perceived is) in vengeance, or repayment, in that way.

Jerm 49:37... I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:

Theres various examples of the feirceness of His wrath by sending the sword or evil angels, or an evil spirit in places. Thats what I meant.

__________________
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Originally Posted by canadianicon25

2 Thessalonians 2:11 speaks out.

I read this and found it....kinda accurate, although I don't quite understand context.

Does God lie? An Exegesis of 2 Thessalonians 2:11

For example here (by way of comparing) you can see a similar thing

Theres the Lord and theres a lying spirit. The Lord sends the lying spirit

1Kings 22:20 And the LORD said,Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead?

And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit,

and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.

And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Then compare...

2Thes 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Then read in between... God sends it (as the Lord sent a lying spirit)

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


Notice its after the "working of" Satan who is a liar, showing a lying spirit (contrary to the Spirit of truth) or a lie

You can go back into the OT and find similar comparisons.


For example here

Duet 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

See sign and wonders?

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Second half of Duet 13:1

Duet 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Duet 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams:

Reason given for this is ...

For the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Who loveth Him not?

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Notice how its worded?

Psalm 125:5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.

The Lord leads forth "with workers of iniquity". Even as it speaks of branches broken off not abiding and are gathered by men and burned.

Theres other various comparisons

__________________
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

i'm going to have to closely look at these passages. the story of Saul is also interesting. I'm not sure exactly what Saul did to anger God so much, but I'm sure I will discover it.

Originally Posted by canadianicon25

i'm going to have to closely look at these passages. the story of Saul is also interesting. I'm not sure exactly what Saul did to anger God so much, but I'm sure I will discover it.

God said he would be at war with Amalek from generation to generation in Exodus 17:18, but you can read 1Sam 15:2 and then on Saul sparing Agag king of the Amalekites and the goods. Samuel ended up taking care of it in 1 Sam 15:33 saying, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.

__________________
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

The ways of God often are very strange and perplexing aren't they?

I think the same sort of phenomena can be seen in God's dealings with pharoah. There comes a point of time when pharoah at last acknowledges the truth of God, as revealed to him by Moses. He is at the point where he can now make a moral choice to either repent or remain defiantly proud. When he chooses defiance and pride, God indeed hardens his heart, and the evil increases exponentially to maximum dramatic effect.

This Thessalonians passage seems to have apocalyptic connotations. Like Pharoah rushing headlong into the all consuming sea, here there is Satan, Prince of Lies, falling like lightning from the sky, and rushing headlong into the all consuming fires.
Those who chose to reject the message of Paul, refuse to follow in what has been spoken or written to them, will likewise be hardened into the lie, again for maximum dramatic effect.

The choices that we make, very much matter. Choose truth and goodness, and it will be increased exponentially through God's grace. Choose the devil's lies and likewise the evil in your life will be raised to exponential levels, again with God exhibiting full sovereignty in the whole affair.

For sure like your link points out, this is rather startling and disturbing. But it is part of the revelation of the Bible all the same.
Believe it.

You do realize these are two contradictory ideas?

Lots and LOTS of that! read Proverbs, a chapter a day. Today's the first day of the month, so read the first chapter. You'll find an amazing array of this, just there! It's really throughout Scripture, but almost always the latter.

I will posit from experience that there are 2 kinds of familiar spirits; those that are familiar with a certain geographical area, and those that are familiar with US. (I don't like any of them)

"You do realize these are two contradictory ideas?"

I poorly worded that. What I meant to say is that once they are here either via a summon or because of being sent they can contact us whenever they wish to.

Yes that makes more sense, but is it true? And does whatever distinction a familiar spirit have, in any way alter their ability to contact us as opposed to any other type? I think these issues are far more important to ignore, and yet much of the the Church seems content to dismiss it.

What I think is really important, is our own power to cause all such contact to cease. Unfortunately that seems to be something that needs to be enforced moment by moment