Contraditions in the bible

Last night at a friends place, someone brought up religion and said he couldn't understand how anyone could be a Christian with all the contraditions in the bible. I didn't want to discuss it with him, but this is a topic I've been struggling with lately. I know we're to look at the overall meaning, not to take all scripture literally and to take it in context, but what do you say to someone who asks you that? The bible is God's word and we're to believe it, but I'm finding some of it difficult to because I see some of it as inconsistant. How do you move pass it and explain it to others?

__________________
Dad: I miss you with all my heart
05/1/58 - 09/23/96

I don't know where I'm going, but I hope I know it when I get there

hi hitl,

Well, you're certainly free to accept the Scriptures as not to be taken literally, but I don't. Most all contradictions that have ever been pointed out to me are a: not really contradictions but just things and events that people refuse to believe happened, or b: not contradictions but possibly things that were said or recorded differently by different writers.

Might I ask what specific passages of Scripture to you seem inconsistent and I hope that you understand that something being inconsistent is not the same as something being contradictory.

If I go through the drive thru at McDonald's every morning for an egg mcmuffin and coffee 364 days of the year, but then one day decide, hmmm, I think I'll try chocolate milk with my mcmuffin today. That's inconsistent with my normal behavior, but it certainly isn't contradictory. If I so choose I can have coffee 364 mornings every year and one day of the year order the chocolate milk. The one does not make the other impossible. A contradiction, however, means that both this and that cannot happen. Not that it isn't likely to happen or I don't believe it could happen but that the two events cannot physically happen. A leaf on a tree cannot be both alive and dead at the same time. That's a contradiction.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Biblical contradiction represents a failure in one's hermeneutical approach and/or philosophical approach. The word is consistent, if not always clear. Thus any perceived contradiction is a personal problem rather than a problem with the word.

There are some modern books that attempt to address the supposed contradictions of the Bible. However, I think the best source for clarification is the early church fathers. They provide insights into the text that make good sense and provide a cultural and theological clarity. I believe that most of the Bible is written in summary or outline form, whereas the average Protestant teacher sees complete discourses and full explanations.

I will give you one common example: the geneology of Jesus. Most skeptics will argue that the differences in the Matthew and Luke geneologies are obvious contradictions. Most Protestant teachers will argue that the Lukan geneology traces Jesus' lineage through Mary. The problem with this is that a woman's lineage was insignificant in those days. My mind was blown when I read Eusebius' explanation of the variation: essentially the differences can be accounted for through applications of the Levirate law. That made the most sense, and it was relatively simple.

Peace to you, hidinginthelight. You've made some excellent observations. Your questions are legitimate and important. I would encourage you not to give in to the pressure of those who tell you that something must be wrong if you think this way or ask these questions. You show far greater respect for the bible than they do because you are open to what the bible really is instead of telling the bible that it must bend to your own theological or doctrinal position about it. The bible is nothing like we expect it to be. It is one-of-a-kind in the world. It is alien to our modern sensibilities and perspectives. And it has the mark of the divine within it. So if it causes you to struggle with it to find your way, then that is a very good sign—it means you are letting the bible speak for itself and impact your life. But beware the day you think you know exactly what the bible is and are no longer challenged and stretched by its nature (like miamited and shanethetheologian) because that is the day that you have ceased to listen to it and have recreated it in your own image.

Simple. I follow Yeshua, not the bible. The bible is wonderful. It contains the Law given to the Jews. It contains the gospel message. It contains hymns of worship, prophecies fulfilled, wondrous tales of YHWH's work in the world. Etc. But it is not the Living Lord. The bible points us to God, but it is not God. I am a Christian because I follow Yeshua, not because I read or believe in a bible. Anyone can read the bible. And anyone can believe in it (even demons). But at the end of the day, it is not the bible that will save you. It is not the bible that will heal you. It is not the bible that will restore the world. It is Yeshua through the Spirit, by the will of the Father, within the church.

Perhaps the first thing you need to do is realize that it IS difficult and that it IS a struggle, but that that's OKAY. You're not going to burn in hell because you grappled with difficult textual passages. You're not going to fall away from YHWH because you saw things in the biblical texts that didn't make sense. Those who tell you otherwise are either deceived, selling something, or trying to control you and have power over your life. Don't let fall for it!

Second, realize that you aren't going to have all the answers to the problems you come across and that ALSO is okay. You SHOULDN'T have all the answers. Beware the day you do.

Third, understand that while the bible is the word of God, it is also the word of humanity. Christianity is not Islam. We are not Muslims who think that every single word in our scriptures was spoken exactly that way by God and constitute the word of God itself, perfect in all ways, without human influence or interference. In Christianity, our religion, that is called idolatry. So if there are conflicts, inconsistencies, contradictions, embarrassments, immoralities, whatever—well, what would you expect from something that is less than God himself? The bible is not God himself. Don't ever think it should be.

__________________
אני אומר ‫לכם אהבו את אויביכם והטיבו לאלה אשר שנאו ‫אתכם והתפללו בעד רודפיכם ובעד עושקכם
“I say to you (plural) 'love your enemies, treat well those who hate you, and supplicate on behalf of your pursuers and your oppressor.'”
Matthew 5:44, Bibliotheque Nationale Hebrew Gospel Manuscript 132, My Translation

For one, the Bible isn't the object of our faith. Christ is.

Secondly, and with that in mind, we receive Scripture because Christ comes to us in it; and we receive this by faith and by this word given to us we are built up in Christ. Contradiction or not becomes fairly irrelevant then; Scripture is God's word to us regardless.

-CryptoLutheran

__________________
To be crucified with Christ means to be in the business of dying. Our arms should be outstretched, unable to make a fist or be armed to injure. To be crucified is to be too busy suffering, serving, and loving everyone that we don't have time to think ill or wish one harm. "When Christ calls a man, He bids him, 'Come and die.'" (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

well what sort of inconsistencies are you talking about?
an example would help

many supposed contradictions vanish upon closer examination.

__________________
But you shouldn't take my word for it.
You should study it and decide for yourself.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

hidinginthelight,

Have you ever looked at the documents of the ones known as Church Fathers ?

One example you may look at below.

NPNF1-06. St. Augustine: Sermon on the Mount; Harmony of the Gospels; Homilies on the Gospels

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf106.titlepage.html

You may look at those documents by the link from Christian Classics Ethereal Library also known as CCEL.

If you want to change the background to white on CCEL web page then look to top right hand corner of web page for small mechanical symbol and click on it and choose and you may change font size.

To look at the contents of the documents, look towards top left hand corner for the lines symbol next to Prev and click on it.

If you ever need knowledge of the bible, the works of the ones known as Early Church Fathers may be most beneficial.

At CCEL or Christian Classics Ethereal Library you may use the literature of the ones known as Early Church Fathers. At the website click on Home and click on Church Fathers.

You may gain some more knowledge of The Old Testament and The Gospels and be able to show anything that is reasoned of as contradictory in reality not contradictory.

Have you looked at my Thread called "Some Parts of the Old Testament Written to Try Us. Try may have same meaning as test" in this Christian Scriptures forum ?

Also in it is part of THE PHILOCALIA OF ORIGEN. You may look at parts of it below.

CHAP. I. ----Of the inspiration of the Divine Scripture; how it is to be read and understood; why it is obscure; and what is the reason of the obscurity in it, and of what is impossible in some cases, or unreasonable, when it is taken literally. From the work on "Principles" and various other works of Origen.

Literal (Body) Moral (Soul)

Actual
History.

Fictitious
History.

Invented by the Holy Spirit
to convey moral and mystical
truths which earthly things
could not sufficiently typify.
In the law some things
were literally to be observed;
others were in the letter impossible
or absurd, but were intended
to convey moral and mystical teaching.

You may use the link below to look at the rest of it and judge.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7663454/

hidinginthelight,

I reasoned to add below the contents of The Philocalia of Origen and a link to look at the documents.

I. Of the Inspiration of the Divine Scripture

II. That the Divine Scripture is closed up and sealed

III. Why the Inspired Books are Twenty-two in Number

IV. Of the Solecisms and Poor Style of Scripture

V. What is "much speaking," and what are the "many books"? The whole Inspired Scripture is One Book

VI. The whole Divine Scripture is One Instrument of God, perfect and fitted for its Work

VII. Of the special "character" of the Persons of Divine Scripture

VIII That we need not attempt to correct the Solecisms of Scripture, etc

IX. Scripture uses the same Terms in different Significations.

X. Stumbling-blocks in Holy Scripture

XI. On Heretical Interpretation of Holy Scripture

XII. We ought not to despair in reading the Scriptures if we find Difficulties in them

XIII. Philosophy in relation to Holy Scripture

XIV. The Use of Logic in the Study of Scripture

XV. A Reply to the Objection that the Truths of Christianity have been better expressed by the Greeks. Our Lord's Body, etc.

XVI. On the Divisions among Christians

XVII. May we give Heathen Titles to the Supreme God?

XVIII. The "simplicity"of Christian Faith, etc.

XIX. Faith in Christ commendable and accordant with the original Moral Notions of Mankind. How Jesus being God could have a Mortal Body

XX. Man and the Irrational Creatures

XXI. Free Will

XXII. The Dispersion of Mankind, and the Confusion of Tongues

XXIII. Fate, Astrology, etc

XXIV. Matter is not Uncreated, or the Cause of Evil

XXV. God's Foreknowledge, Predestination, etc

XXVI. Scripture Blessings. What things are really "Good" and "Evil"

XXVII. The Hardening of Pharaoh's Heart

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/more...ia_02_text.htm

hidinginthelight-

Those who make statements such as you have quoted often try to nitpick the gospels with questions such as:

1. Were there two angels at the tomb on Easter morning, or just one? And were they angels (Matthew, John) or men (Mark,Luke)?

2. Was Jesus born in a manger, as is written in Luke, or in a house, where the wise men find him in Matthew?

3. Did Jesus have to be taken to Egypt by Joseph in order to save his life, as described in Matthew, or did he simply return to Galilee following his presentation in the temple, as described in Luke?

4. How many women went to the tomb on Easter morning? Were there two, as in Matthew; three, as in Mark; an unknown number, as in Luke; or one, as in John?

Paradoxically, it is these supposed contradictions which give the gospels credibility. If all four of them had contained the same wording down to the people who participated in the events, the charge of collusion could be brought against all four of them, making them little more than products of those who attempted to promote an agenda. Even today, and especially in criminal cases, attorneys look for witnesses whose testimony too closely mimics that of other witnesses in order to throw the testimony of all those witnesses out as being rehearsed beforehand.

The supposed contradictions listed above can be explained as being due to each author's approaching the gospels from his own direction. Matthew's gospel stated that Jesus lived in Bethlehem until he was two years old, at which time he had to flee to Egypt (a nation not under Herod's rule) because of Herod the Great's paranoia. That's why he was in a house when the wise men found him. He wasn't newborn; he was a toddler when they presented their gifts to him.

On the other hand, Luke's gospel simply spoke of his conception and birth as a means of identifying him as being not only human, but also divine in nature. But unlike the pagan gods, whose divinity evidenced itself through their power and wealth, his nature was humble to the point of his being born in a manger located in a stable. After his presentation in the temple Luke states that he and his family returned to Galilee, and that can be seen as a contradiction to what Matthew states in his gospel. But Luke doesn't say that he immediately returned to Galilee, but only that he did so.

A modern-day example would be that my wife (God rest her soul) and I were married, and then we visited Niagara Falls, Canada. But we were married in 1967, and we visited Niagara Falls in 1981. To list one thing as happening after another thing has occurred does not necessarily mean that they happened close in time to one another.

As for the number of women who went to the tomb on Easter morning, the authors of the gospels named those whom they considered as most important. This doesn't mean that others weren't also there; it simply means that the authors of the gospels didn't consider them as important enough to name, or even include.

Angels took the form of men, and the archangels were all given men's names. So it would be logical to call them either angels (which means 'messengers') or men. As for their number, irregardless of whether the gospels list one or two as being present, only one of them actually communicated with the women.

A modern-day example of this would be the day in which my wife died of cancer. Since she died at home, it was mandatory that a police officer investigate, even though it was obvious that her death was due to natural causes. He talked with me, getting information concerning her medical history. And he talked directly with her doctor, getting a statement from the doctor that she had indeed died of cancer.

To read the previous paragraph you could come to the conclusion that this police officer and I were the only people in my home. But in reality my home was full of men. There were paramedics there who had officially pronounced my wife as having died. The police officer had a partner who was standing only a few feet away from him. But it was that police officer who was interrelating with me who was of primary importance, so in order to relate the event only he needed to be included.

I hope this helps. God bless-

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Believe, that is why it is called faith.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.