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  #1  
Old 16th June 2012, 11:08 AM
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The Year Yeshua died..

Controversy is over what year Yeshua died... I will be presenting that it is 30 AD the better year..
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  #2  
Old 16th June 2012, 11:11 AM
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Why I picked 30 AD … Daniel 9:27 - “He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week, he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD minus 40 years equals 30 AD.

"Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Mashiach, the prince, shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, it shall be built again, with plaza and moat, but in times of distress." Daniel 9:25-26.

There are many ways this is calculated - In Nehemiah 2:1 we see the decree to rebuild, issued in the 20th year of King Artaxerxes, (about 445 B.C.) Messiah comes 483 years after the decree to rebuild is issued [Calculated by adding 7 weeks (49 years) + 62 weeks (434 years)] this arrives at about the time of Yeshua's triumphant entry in Jerusalem. Messiah comes 434 years after rebuilding, or 483 years after decree is first issued giving permission to rebuild -- hence 483 years (7 weeks + 62 weeks).

The other factor is that in 70 AD the Temple was destroyed. Minus the forty years = 30 AD.
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Old 16th June 2012, 11:21 AM
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This fellow also has some interesting finds regarding 30 AD for you to consider.. The Mysterious Events Of The Year 30 A.D.!
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Old 16th June 2012, 01:19 PM
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Visionary, do you think that Rabbi Yohanan B. Zakkai felt that this was being done by a fallen angel and was he saying to the fallen angel that they were destined to be destroyed?


Says the Jewish Talmud in Yoma 39b of the events which occurred in 30 A.D.:

“Forty years before the Temple was destroyed [i.e., 40 years before 70 A.D., or in 30 A.D.] . . .the gates of the Hekel [Holy Place] opened by themselves, until Rabbi Yohanan B. Zakkai rebuked them [the gates] saying, Hekel, Hekel, why alarmist thou us? We know that thou art destined to be destroyed...”
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Old 16th June 2012, 03:30 PM
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The only way a fallen angel gains entrance is by God's allowances... the shekinah glory had left the building. They had rejected their Messiah... and until they mourn His Son... the glory will not return.
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Old 18th June 2012, 01:40 PM
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Greetings Visonary,

My apologies for the delay getting back to you on this subject. I did reply to an area in the Covenant Scriptures portion of the Theology folder where I first found your discussion and noted the problem I discovered with trusting the Hebcal for dates preceeding the adoption of the Gregorian calendar. I can copy that here if you wish?

Please consider the following:

Based on the details of the Canonical gospels, the Crucifixion of Jesus was most likely to have been on a Friday (John 19:42).[4] The estimated year of the Crucifixion is AD 33, by two different groups, and originally as AD 34 by Isaac Newton via the differences between the Biblical and Julian calendars and the crescent of the moon.[5] A third method, using a completely different astronomical approach based on a lunar Crucifixion darkness and eclipse model (consistent with Apostle Peter's reference to a "moon of blood" in Acts 2:20), points to Friday, 3 April AD 33.[6]
from: Good Friday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Five hundred years in advance of Yahushua’s fulfillment, Daniel predicted that the Messiah would arrive in Jerusalem173,880 days from Nisan 1, 444 BCE. Correlated to the Georgian calendar, God was to arrive on Branch Monday, March 28, 33 CE. On that day, according to Gabriy’el, the Savior would enter Jerusalem for the express purpose of being sacrificed to save mankind. History records that Yahshua fulfilled that requirement on Passover, four days after He arrived.


Some believe that the “twentieth year of Artaxerxes” is 445 BCE since his

father, Xerxes, died in 465. But they fail to take into consideration the drama that transpired following Xerxes murder. The king was killed in his sleep by an ambitious fellow named Artabanus, who also murdered the heir apparent, Darius.



The next oldest son in the royal line, Hustapis, was out of the country. That made Artaxerxes, a mere teenager, a temporary stand in while Hustapis was tracked down. Artabanus left Artaxerxes alive, figuring he could rule through the boy as regent. But seven months later he changed his mind and tried to kill Artaxerxes.



However, as luck would have it, the lad killed Artabanus instead. Hustapis
showed up shortly thereafter and tried to claim the throne, so Artaxerxes, now an accomplished murderer, killed his older brother to resolve the question of politics.



All this maneuvering took the better part of a year. Thus Artaxerxes wasn’t able to assume the throne until 464. That would make the starting date of Daniel’s prophecy the 1st of Nisan, 444 BCE.



Daniel’s prophecy said “seven weeks of years and sixty two weeks of years” because it was codifying two separate, yet related events. From the Nisan 1, 444 BCE date, we count “seven weeks of years (49 prophetic years)until Jerusalem could be rebuilt. Then there would be another “sixty-two weeks of years (434 prophetic years)for a grand total of 483 years “until the Messiah” would arrive in “troublesome times…to be cut off but not for Himself.” To calculate this date we must multiply 483 (49 + 434) years by the 360 days in the standard Hebrew calendar. This comes out to 173,880 days, or 476 solar years and 25 days.



Next, we add this interval to the 1st of Nisan, 444 BCE. Since there was no year zero in the Georgian calendar, the addition of 173,880 days to Nisan 1, 444 BCE sets the arrival of the Messiah on Monday, March 28, 33 CE.
Later


Matthew reports: “When He entered (eiserchomai) Yaruwshalaim the whole city was shaken, saying, ‘Who is He?’ The crowds of common people said, ‘He is the prophet Yahushua of Nazareth (Nazareth – a transliteration of the Hebrew name based upon naziyr, meaning the set-apart one, netser, meaning tender shoot or branch, and natsar, meaning the one who protects and preserves relationships) in Galilee (Galilaia – a transliteration of the Hebrew Galiyl, meaning that which rolls open the door).” (Matthew 21:10-11)




There are four reasons we know this was a Monday.


First, Daniel told us. All we have to do is: bone up on our history, do the math, and look the result up on a calendar.



Second, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John tell us that Yahshua returned to
Jerusalem to eat Passover dinner with them (which would have been Thursday evening in 33), that He was crucified the next day (therefore Friday, which they called ‘preparation day’), and that His body was in the tomb on the Sabbath. We are also told that after His triumphal entry, Yahushua left town and stayed in Bethany for two days (Mark 14:1-3). Working backwards, those two days must have been Tuesday and Wednesday.



Third, Yahuweh told the Yisra’elites in Exodus (a passage we’ll review in a
moment) that the Passover lamb had to enter their residence four days before Passover. Since Yahushua was the Passover Lamb, he had to arrive on schedule.



And fourth, the reason the crowds lined the streets shouting “Please save us Savior” is because they were expecting Yisra’el’s Passover lamb to arrive at this very time. Since the rabbis could read, each year they picked the most perfect lamb from pastures in Bethlehem and brought that sacrificial lamb into the city four days before Passover in accordance with the Torah’s instructions. And while this may all sound tedious and pedantic, the reason these days are important will soon become evident.



As another interesting verification of the timing, 33 CE is the only year between 27 and 35 CE that is consistent with the eyewitness testimony. Again, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John confirm that the disciples ate Passover dinner with Yahshua and that He was crucified on the following day. Then they all claim that His body remained in the grave on the Sabbath, rising sometime between sunset and sunrise the next day. Passover began on Thursday at sunset in 33 CE, but that was not the case in any other year close to it. That means that either the crucifixion and resurrection took place in 33 or Daniel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and
John are all wrong. (In case you’re interested, Passover would have begun on Tuesday evening the 6th of April in 26 CE; Sunday at sunset, on March 26th of the year 28; then on Friday the 13th of April in 29; Passover began on Tuesday evening April 2, 30 CE; again on Sunday, this time on March 23rd at sunset in 31; Sunday evening again in 32, this time April 11th, in 33 Passover began on Thursday evening at sundown, it was March 31st on our calendars; in 34 we are back to Sunday, a March 19th; and it was Sunday evening again in 35, this time April 8th).



There is another very important verification of the timing—one that will lead us to profoundly revealing conclusions, ultimately unlocking the door behind which the clues to all future fulfillments are hidden. 33 CE wasn’t an ordinary year on the Hebrew calendar. It was a Yowbel-Lamb’s Redemption year— something that happened only once every 50 years.



We know 33 was a Yowbel because the last historically recorded Yowbel or

Jubilee in Jerusalem was 133 CE. It was a very bad year for the Jews. They were fooled by their leading Rabbi, Akiba, the fellow who is said to have founded the religious sect known as the Masoretes.

I admit that I'm somewhat uncertain about 360 "Prophetic Years" or on the accuracy of given years centuries BCE, unless other confirmation can be provided such as astro-archeology to confirm when celestial events described in texts form those times could actually have happended, which works in this case in favor of a 33 CE crufixion of Messiah.

Of note, if the end of Messiah's three year mission ended in April of 33CE, His mission began sometime in 30CE.

On a related note, from what I can tell based on the evidence, Messiah's bodily advent was most likely in Fall 2 BCE without a year 0, but this may be a sepearte discussion.

Respectfully,

-Yada Yah
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Old 18th June 2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Yada Yah View Post
On a related note, from what I can tell based on the evidence, Messiah's bodily advent was most likely in Fall 2 BCE without a year 0, but this may be a sepearte discussion.

Respectfully,

-Yada Yah
So, Jesus was born two years after Herod the Great died? Nice.
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Old 18th June 2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by yonah_mishael View Post
So, Jesus was born two years after Herod the Great died? Nice.
No, but it is fair to question whether Herod died when you suppose. More on that if you like.

-Yada Yah

Last edited by Yada Yah; 18th June 2012 at 06:22 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 18th June 2012, 03:50 PM
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I have some more to add on Herod and Messiah's arrival:

The year of Yahushua’s arrival is broadly believed by biblical scholars to be 4BCE because Matthew says that it occurred during the reign of King Herod. However, the scholarly extrapolation is based upon an erroneous interpretation of Josephus’ recording of an eclipse (which turned out to be only partial) on March 13, 4BCE, “shortly before Herod died.” There are a number of problems with this accounting in addition to the fact that it conflicts with Scripture and Josephus was a traitor who shouldn’t be trusted. More to the point, the only total eclipse visible in the region during this period actually occurred on January 1, 1CE. Not only was that event worth noting, it provided sufficient time between Yahushua’s arrival on the Miqra’ of Sukah in the Fall of 2BCE and Herod’s eventual death in 1CE for the Messiyah’s family to flee briefly to Egypt to avoid the king’s paranoid persecution of potential rivals in Bethlehem, and thus harmonize with the Renewed Covenant witness.
Later

Now, regarding Herod, here is what we know. He was half Edomite and half Arab. He had two sons through Mariame, who was one of the few surviving descendents of the Hasomeans, in order to legitimize his rule. His politically inspired boys were given the Greek names Alexander and Aristobulus. However, previously Herod had fathered Antipater by way of a commoner named Doris.

Jealous of Alex’s and Aristo’s royal genes, Antipater and Doris concocted a slanderous campaign against them, ultimately causing Herod, himself genetically and morally depraved, to side with the genetically and morally deprived Doris and Antipater, and have his royal sons executed. Not pleased by the proposed act of familial vengeance, Caesar Augustus revoked Herod’s “killing privileges” and demoted him to “subject,” rather than “friend” status. As a result, Herod was forced to have Alexander and Aristobulus tried by Caesar’s representatives in Beirut, Syria. But it was only a minor setback because loving the sight of blood, the Roman officials ruled against the boys and let the father kill his sons. In this sordid affair, we find confirmation of Herod’s willingness to kill children—even his own.

The death of Alexander and Aristobulus empowered Antipater. As a result, he became “co-ruler with his father and in no way was different from a king” according to Josephus (Antiquities XVII.2) in 4BCE. Then, not yet satisfied, Antipater schemed to kill his father. But since Herod was an accomplished murderous schemer, he uncovered the plot and had his lone remaining heir recalled from Rome for trial.

Disenfranchised, Herod “the-not-so-great” had to have the Roman governor Quirinius Varus try the case. Then upon Antipater’s conviction for treason, Herod petitioned Rome again, this time to have his remaining son executed. He prevailed.

While it is assumed in scholarly circles that Herod’s death was somehow
contemporaneous with Aristobulus’ in 4BCE, the evidence does not concur. You see, when Archelaus, who ultimately succeeded Herod (as is confirmed by Matthew 2:22 and history), assumed uncontested power, he “had long exercised royal authority” according to Josephus (Jewish Wars II.26), confirming that Herod lived for some time as co-regent after the aborted 4BCE coop.

In part, it was this instability in Judaea which may have prompted Caesar to conduct a census, and its requisite oath of allegiance to the emperor, and to Rome as the “Lord of the world.” This is what brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem.

The fact that in Judaea, the census coincided with the Miqra’ of Sukah, in which every Yahuwdym who was able, migrated to the outskirts of Jerusalem to campout with God, was political genius on the part of Augustus. By way of comparison, Caligula is recorded by Josephus (Antiquities XVIII.124) as having done the same thing upon his ascension and change of government. As further confirmation, Caesar noted in a 2BCE speech, on his 25th anniversary of being elevated from Octavian to the title of Augustus, and later from man to god, that he was given the title of Pater Patriae (Father of the Country) by the “entire Roman people,” which would have required an oath and census at that time. (While it isn’t germane to our story, the year 2BCE wasn’t only Caesar Augustus’ silver jubilee, it was the 750th anniversary of the founding of Rome.)

Therefore, all one has to do to put the historical and Scriptural pieces together, is to recognize that the full lunar eclipse recorded on January 1, 1BCE was the celestial event Josephus was referencing in connection with Herod’s death, and not the partial eclipse in 4BCE. The Roman census, Mary and Joseph’s migration to Bethlehem, Yahushua’s arrival, and Herod’s subsequent persecution of newborns, all fit within the historical timeline God has attested to.

But there are two more wrinkles we should examine.

First, more recent studies of the earliest Josephus manuscripts reveal that a copying error made in 1544CE contributed to the errant dating of Herod’s demise. Corrected to the oldest manuscripts, we learn that the capture of Jerusalem occurred late in 36BCE, making January 1CE the 34th year of the despot’s reign.

The second issue which requires reconciliation is a contemporaneous
governorship in Syria. Luke explains that Yahushua arrived during the reign of Caesar Augustus (43BCE to 14CE) when Quirinius was governor of Syria.

The problem here is that a cursory inspection suggests that Quirinius Varus became procurator/governor of Syria in 6CE. However, there are coins which reveal that he also ruled Syria between 7 and 4BCE and again between 2BCE and 1CE, resolving the conflict.

Tertullian, a trustworthy historian and lawyer born about 160CE, stated that Augustus began his reign 41 years before the birth of Yahushua and that the emperor died 15 years after the Messiyah’s redemptive advent, placing Yahushua’s arrival in 2BCE. The 42nd year of Augustus ran from the autumn of 2BCE to the fall of 1BCE. Tertullian also noted that the Messiyah was born 28 years after the death of Cleopatra in 30BCE, which is consistent with the 2BCE date.

Irenaeus, born 75 years before Tertullian, also noted that Yahushua was born in the 41st year of Augustus’s reign—consistent with the accounting of Scripture and Tertullian. Eusebius, another early historian, provides corroborating testimony, ascribing the advent of the Messiyah to the 28th anniversary of the subjection of Egypt by the Romans and the death of Anthony and Cleopatra in the fall of 30BCE. Most importantly, especially as it pertains to the Messianic prediction in Bare’shiyth one, Yahuchanan proclaimed that “the Word became flesh and Tabernacled with us,” connecting His arrival with the Called-Out Assembly of Tabernacles.

As mentioned previously, Luke (3:23) explains that Yahushua was around 30 when He began His ministry. The Renewed Covenant records Yahushua
observing three Passovers as part of His witness, and Daniel dates the last one to April 1st, 33CE (confirmed in the “Ma’sahyah” chapter of Yada Yahweh’s Salvation volume). These dates correlate the time “a child was born, a son was given” to the fall observance of the seventh Miqra’, that of Sukah/Tabernacles in the fall of 2BCE.

As I mentioned before I appreciate the value of astro-archeology to aide in accurately dating. Some time ago I came across a video presentation looking into the star over Bethlehem and the signs in the heavens preceding Messiah's advent and at the time of His crucifixion. If you've not viewed it before you can find details at: The Star of Bethlehem


So what timeframe do you favor Yonah Mishael, and what evidence do you use to support you conclusion?

Respectfully,

-Yada Yah

Last edited by Yada Yah; 18th June 2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 19th June 2012, 07:59 AM
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There are a lot of odd claims in your article, which would take some time to dismantle and correct. Do remember, however, that I am not allowed to offer evidence and conclusions on this forum. I'd be glad to engage you in this discussion, but I cannot do it here.
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