Who or what is the little horn of Daniel 7?

Who or what is the little horn of Daniel 7?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207&version=NKJV

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favour of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
The little horn is there at the end of the age. The little horn arises out of another ten horns which are ten kings…

The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.

Please note that I no longer believe Revelation to be canonical, nor do I believe that the writings of Paul are the reliable infallible words of God. So as far as I’m concerned, we are limited in this discussion to the book of Daniel.

Dumb. That's your self created problem, brother fish. I still have a complete kjv bible. So it is still part of all discussions.

The little horn is the end times Antichrist person. That he emerges out of ten kings identifies the first stage of his career. Eventually, he will persecute the Jews, in the fourth and last stage of his career, as the Antichrist beast.

We don't know the specific identity of the ten kings by group or by individuals, yet. But we are on the edge of that happening right now.


Doug

Awww … No Revelation of Yeshua and no Epistles of Paul? If one is not keeping the sayings of the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua then he does not understand it anyways. A disciple of the Word is expected to force himself or herself to conform to the Word rather than to remove all of that which he or she does not yet comprehend. This is essential to the walk of discipleship, (if one truly receives Yeshua as Master) and comes by the washing of water into the Word daily. If you will not accept the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua, nor the revelations given to Paul, will you at least hear Torah according to a single Parable of the Master? And if not that then what? Perhaps someone else will.

There are twenty one names which correspond to the unclean fowls of the air. However, all of the names do not appear in each of the separate lists given in Torah. One must put the two lists together for all of the names to be revealed and surely this is by design. Of masculine names combined from both passages of Scripture there are eight names of unclean fowls including ''Every `oreb-raven after his kind'' (the same is the `Aza'zel ''old man'' sin nature).

Leviticus 11:13-19 KJV (20 Names - 6 Masculine)
13. And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14. And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15. Every raven after his kind;
16. And (''bath''-daughters - feminine untranslated) the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17. And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18. And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19. And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Leviticus 11:13-19 TUA (20 Names - 6 Masculine)
13. W'et- 'eleh tshaqtsuw min- ha`owp ; lo' ye'akluw --sheqets hem: 'Et- hanesher w'et- haperec w'et ha`azniyah
14. w'et- hada'ah w'et- ha'ayah lmiynah
15. 'et kal-`oreb lmiynow
16. w'et bat (feminine) haya`nah w'et- hatachmac w'et-hashachap w'et- hanets lmiynehuw
17. w'et- hakowc w'et-hashalak w'et- hayanshuwp
18. w'et- hatinshemet w'et-haqa'at w'et- haracham
19. w'et hachaciydah ha'anapah lmiynah w'et- haduwkiypat w'et- ha`Talep.

In the companion passage several of names are interchanged for the six masculine names recorded in Leviticus 11:13-15 and one additional name is written for a total of seven names in Deuteronomy 14:12-14. The alternate and additional names provide for a combined understanding, from both passages of Scripture, of a total number of EIGHT species of masculine "unclean" fowls of the air, (the `oreb-raven is then "the eighth and of the seven").

Deuteronomy 14:12-18 KJV (21 Names - 7 Masculine)
12. But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13. And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14. And every raven after his kind,
15. And (''bath''-feminine-untranslated) the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16. The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17. And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18. And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Deuteronomy 14:12-18 TUA (21 Names - 7 Masculine)
12. Wzeh 'sher lo'-to'kluw mehem: hanesher whaperec wha`azniyah
13. whara'ah w'et- ha'ayah whadayah lmiynah
14. w'et kal-`oreb lmiynow
15. w'et bat haya`nah w'et- hatachmac w'et-hashachap w'et- hanets lmiynehuw
16. 'et- hakowc w'et-hayanshuwp whatinshamet
17. whaqa'at w'et- harachamahw'et- hashalak
18. whachaciydah wha'anapah lmiynahwhaduwkiypat wha`aTalep.

Unclean Fowls of Abomination ~
1) The Nesher lacerater eagle (Nebuchadnezzar - Head of Gold - Babylon)
2) The Perec clawed divider (Dominion Divided - Parac-Persia)
3) The `Azniyah-`Oz strong (Countenance of `Az - Daniel 8:23 - Yavan)
4) The Da'ah - fast flyer darter
5) The Ra'ah - keen sighted darter
6) The 'Ayah-'iy-woe! - screamer-howler
7) The Dayah - vulture
8) Every `Oreb - raven after his kind

The first three correlate to Daniel 7 and the Lion-Bear-Leopard analogy, the story of David and Goliath, Hosea 13, and Revelation 13. ''Their lives were prolonged for a season and an appointed time'' (Daniel 7:12).

In these 21 names we have therefore: TEN TOES and ELEVEN HORNS.
The Ten Toes are like the ''daughters of men'' which are doctrines of the flesh.
The Lion is the heart-soul - ''head of gold'' - wings of the nesher-eagle - Babylon
The Bear is the silver chest and arms divided - Madai-Parac - Media-Persia
The Leopard is the brass belly - 4 heads of the 4 Rivers - 4 wings of fowl - Yavan

Four Wings of Yavan ~
'Iy- Desert nomad howlers of the isles - Isaiah 34:14 - HSN#336-339 'iy - 'iyiym

Genesis 10:4-5
4. And the sons of Yavan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5. By these were the 'iy-isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Four Heads of Yavan ~
1) Elishah
2) Tarshish
3) Kittim - Chittim (desert dweller "tsiyiym" of Isaiah 34:14 - Daniel 11:30)
4) Dodanim - Rodaniym (Da'ah - Ra'ah)

All of this comes from the teaching of the Master ~
Yeshua interprets this Torah of the fowls in the Parable of the Sower:

Matthew 13:3-4 KJV
3. And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4. And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Matthew 13:18-19 KJV
18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:15 KJV
15. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:12 KJV
12. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Therefore the unclean fowls of the air represent the wicked one, the devil, and Satan. The teaching is supernal and warns us not to allow them to steal the Truth of the Word from our heart and commands us not to eat-partake of them or their doctrines. How does one not eat of them? Do not eat-consume-devour-believe any testimony which you may prove by the Scripture to be false. There are ten of these abominable fowls which are likened in Daniel to ten toes of iron, (which is spirit whether for the good or the evil) mixed with miry potters clay, (the earthen vessel is the man) and there are eleven which are horns of the head or mind. The little horn is then verily that same ''old man'' sin nature, which was cast out to begin with, and comes back seeking to re-enter his former abode with seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and YOU are his former abode because the man is the house from whence he came:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

The passage above may only apply to believers because unbelievers have never had the old man sin nature cast out to begin with, and thus, the unbeliever surely continues to serve the prince of the power of the air, (which is an idol to himself in the vain imagination of his own mind). When speaking of sheep and goats this one is the scapegoat `Azazel and that old man sin nature, which is a false prophet spirit having two horns like a lamb but speaking as a dragon; and he returns with all of the old sins upon his head, like a mortal head wound. However when speaking of the fowls of the air, and the prince of the power of the air; the same one is the `oreb-raven, and each man has an `oreb-raven after his kind which returns with the seven other fowl spirits more wicked than himself.

Originally Posted by daq

Awww … No Revelation of Yeshua and no Epistles of Paul? If one is not keeping the sayings of the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua then he does not understand it anyways. A disciple of the Word is expected to force himself or herself to conform to the Word rather than to remove all of that which he or she does not yet comprehend. This is essential to the walk of discipleship, (if one truly receives Yeshua as Master) and comes by the washing of water into the Word daily. If you will not accept the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua, nor the revelations given to Paul, will you at least hear Torah according to a single Parable of the Master? And if not that then what? Perhaps someone else will.

It's not about understanding Revelation, does anyone understand Rev? Can anyone agree on what it says? No. I have studied that wretched book for many years, and now the Lord has revealed to me that it is non-canonical, and I can see it for what it really is, at last, thank God.

I accept the gospels and the total Old Testament, as being inspired, and the letters of John, James and Peter and Jude.

I do not accept that all of Paul's voluminous writings, putting everything that he ever thought down on paper, are all the utterances of God, the 'Word of God', no way; Paul said a lot of very dodgy things, about Cretans, salves, the role of women and government. And he also (in my opinion) went too far in abrogating the Law of Moses.

John of Patmos was not the same person as John of the gospel, the apostle. The Revelation is very clever; I grant you that, well constructed by an expert on the Old Testament. He has used bits of the OT, from the book of Daniel; the horses come from Zechariah chapter 6...

6 Then I turned and raised my eyes and looked, and behold, four chariots were coming from between two mountains, and the mountains were mountains of bronze. 2 With the first chariot were red horses, with the second chariot black horses, 3 with the third chariot white horses, and with the fourth chariot dappled horses—strong steeds. 4 Then I answered and said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?”

John of Patmos has changed it around a bit, the dappled horses becomes the pale horse. He uses the beasts of Daniel's vision and meshes them all together into one mega-beast seven headed dragon, which is Rome. The seven heads represent the Seven Hills of Rome.
The Mysterious Babylon is Rome, wearing purple and red, it’s the Roman State with its Babylonian religion. The ten horns of Daniel’s final beast are now dumped onto the seven heads of the dragon which is Rome, which is itself an image of Satan, the dragon. There is also heresy in Revelation; God’s Holy Spirit is One, not seven Spirits… ‘and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne’.

One of the seven heads being mortally wounded is part of the Nero revividus myth, the idea that Nero was going to come back to life. The riddle of the seven kings can be explained… the five that have passed away makes, the fifth king Nero, who had committed suicide.. ‘one is’ is possibly Galba, although Otho and Vitellius were also vying for the Empire over a short period, until Vespasian came to power, and then Titus.

This ‘one who must endure for a short time’ didn’t happen and never will happen. The image of the beast was an imagined statue of Nero, that would come to life being possessed by the spirit of Nero, and everyone would be compelled to worship the statue… never happened.
All these events in Revelation are said to occur quickly. Jesus says in the book that he is coming quickly, and 2000 years later we are still waiting, not really very quickly.

And does our loving Jesus really go about killing innocent babies? I think not…

22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their[g] deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts.

In chapter 17, the angel promises to explain the mystery of the woman (Rome), and instead rambles off another load of even more confusing riddles about ‘one who was, is not and yet is’… etc. I managed to work out that John of Patmos was talking about the devil, who is the one who was (in the Garden of Eden, is not, and yet will be… he expected the devil to rise out of the abyss and amaze people with the sight of it. But the mystery of the woman is not explained in plain language, as was the case in the book of Daniel, when the angel clarified visions or dreams.

Because none of the events of Revelation have occurred, despite the author saying that these things were to occur shortly, people have decided to gather the whole lot up in a bundle and dump it at the very end of time, when it will then all start to unfold.
By the way, chapter 18 is predicting the destruction of Rome, which also never happened, as it’s still there today.

21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Babylon is the code name used for Rome.
Chapter 20 is the reason why so many Christians now believe there will be a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth, and not a new heaven and new earth, which is what the bible says. I believe that John of Patmos was himself a believer in the millennium. I used to think of it in symbolic terms, but now I realise that Satan is in no way bound in the bottomless pit; the devil is rampant on the earth now.
I could never understand why the devil would be released from the abyss at the end of the millennium… what the hell’s the point of that? And the battle of Gog Magog is placed at the end of the millennium in chapter 20, instead of in the latter days of the age, which is what Ezekiel said. And this huge army then attacks the city of the saints, which is presumably Jerusalem?

Another thing that used to bother me, is that in chapter 20, we are judged according to our works, and not according to our faith in trust in Jesus, and our perseverance in faithfulness, which is what the gospel sais.. I used to rationalise this in my mind by thinking that this was talking about another dispensation; when the obvious answer is that John of Patmos was of the ‘works’ camp, perhaps opposed to the Pauline camp, with justification by faith.

It is a blessed relief to have worked out the truth about this book. Who is the Bright and Morning Star anyway? (Rev. 22:16) I thought that was the fallen cherub, the son of the morning, as per Isaiah? Rev. 22:12 7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” We might need to redefine what quickly means.

I used to think I knew what chapter nine was about, as some people in the past have said it was representing Islam. What I couldn’t figure out was the reference to five months. I now believe that this was some sort of nightmarish vision that John of Patmos had, which was supposed to have occurred literally, as some people still believe now.

Rev.3:11 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
This ‘My God’ thing used to bother me, and I wondered if it was a problem of translation; I thought Jesus was co-equal with God after the resurrection? This ‘My God’ seems to make it into some sort of distinction between Jesus the man, and God. And of course Jesus says that he is coming quickly again, and he didn’t.
So according to Revelation, Jesus doesn’t know the true meaning of coming quickly, after 2000 years. There is more, but that’s it for me, enough said on the matter.

WHY THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS HERESY

Originally Posted by hiscosmicgoldfish

....
Please note that I no longer believe Revelation to be canonical, nor do I believe that the writings of Paul are the reliable infallible words of God. So as far as I’m concerned, we are limited in this discussion to the book of Daniel.

So tell me why anyone should take anything you say seriously.

It's not my job to try and convince anyone, as this is just a forum with a few people on it. I come here to learn stuff; when i study the bible, it helps to get ideas from others, and then the Lord shows me the truth about the bible, however upsetting any revelation of that information might be to others, if I write down my findings.
The warning in Revelation says that you get your name removed from the Lambs Book of Life, if you question anything in John of Patmos' stupid book.
And Paul said that women should shut up and be taught at home by their husbands, and that slaves should be happy with their lot, and that all governments are ordained by God, and why should I believe any of that garbage? Paul couldn't get his story straight in his own head, about what happened to him on the road to Damascus, his story changed three times, and that's in the bible.
But this thread was supposed to be about the little horn of Daniel 7, and nobody is bothering to vote.

Originally Posted by hiscosmicgoldfish

..., and nobody is bothering to vote.

Because nobody takes anything you say seriously.

From the viewpoint of men, part of what Rev. chs. 2-3 foretold could have begun unfolding "shortly" (Rev. 1:1,3), for the letters to the 7 literal, 1st-century local church congregations (Rev. chs. 2-3) in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Rev. 1:11b) could have foretold a 1st-century persecution (Rev. 2:10, 3:10) under the Roman Emperor Domitian which happened shortly after John saw his vision around 95 AD, near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c). But even all the (to us) still-future events of the coming trib & the subsequent 2nd coming (Rev. chs. 6-19) will unfold "shortly" (Rev. 1:1,3) or "quickly" (Rev. 22:20) after John saw his vision. For from the viewpoint of God, even the passing of some 2,000 years is like the passing of only 2 days (2 Pet. 3:8). Christians should look at the future fulfillment of Rev. chs. 6-19 from the viewpoint of God, not men, for whom the passing of some 2,000 years seems like a long delay for its fulfillment (2 Pet. 3:9).

While the corrupt aspects of Rome (as well as of other cities) are included in what the symbolic whore "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents, she represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of Rome. For Rome just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18). Nor is Rome the only place where people buy merchandise (Rev. 18:11). Nor is Rome the place where all martyrs have been killed (Rev. 18:24). Nor has Rome just by itself corrupted the entire world (Rev. 18:3). Nor has Rome been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Rev. 17:7,9-10).

Rev's "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Rev. 17:18), economic (Rev. 18:11), & religious (Rev. 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3) & throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire all that "Babylon" represents (Rev. 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Rev. 16:19), possibly with nukes (& possibly with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Rev. 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Rev. 16:17) of the future trib of Rev. chs. 6-18, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:2-20:6, Mt. 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isa. 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future trib, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist & his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil god YHWH is about to begin [Rev. 16:14, 19:19], a battle which we'll win, and so we'll be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, & return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma. So let us now completely destroy this awful prison cell, this foul planet, & let us, as it were, completely burn up all the gewgaws which we've hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break every chain of attachment to this vile material realm, that we might more freely ascend back into our rightful place in the blessed Pleroma".

Of course this will be a total lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) will completely defeat the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Rev. 16:14, 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:1-6). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth & make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezek. 36:35, Isa. 51:3). And after the millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) & a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Rev. 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Rev. 21:2-4).

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Notes: christianforums.com/blogs/u77506/