Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > General Theology
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Unread 18th June 2012, 10:47 AM
LittleLambofJesus's Avatar
THAT IS WHAT I SAY!

64 Gender: Male Faith: Christian-Seeker Country: United States Member For 5 Years Committed
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 7th March 2006
Location: God's Country of Texas
Posts: 114,823
Blessings: 1,012,727,987
My Mood Cynical
Blog Entries: 2
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,900)
LittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond repute
LittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by IOWLBNIF

the sabbath covenant is not what its all about

Its all about Christ...

i gave you my "lip service" yet you didnt address.......

i guess i played your little game in vain then.
Originally Posted by mog144 View Post
Thank you for a second bath of your lip service. It's obvious that you miss the point, rather purposely! LOL You're a thorn and I know how to handle thorns. Keep in mind, your posts are also being recorded by Him.

First off, it IS all about the Covenant because without THAT 7th day Sabbath Covenant that you blatantly blaspheme GOD cannot save a single soul. He Himself must be Binding in His Own Laws... Think about it!!!
Stop trying to twist Scripture, silence is a virtue, exercise it.

Seems to be a lot of that going on here in GT

NKJV) Psalms 74:10 O God, how long will the adversary reproach?
Will the enemy blaspheme Your name forever?

NKJV) Romans 2:24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.

NKJV) Revelation 16:11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.

....
__________________

__________________
Colossians 2:14
Having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us.
And He hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Hebrews 2:14
Therefore then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, and He in like manner did partake to the same.
That thru the death He might take-away the one having the power of the death, that is the Devil


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation
...............................
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #102  
Unread 18th June 2012, 11:14 AM
bugkiller's Avatar
Junior Member

Faith: Protestant Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 23rd March 2007
Location: 10 acres in rual America
Posts: 10,227
Blessings: 2,162
My Mood Amazed
Reps: 2,578,111,523,380,138,496 (power: 2,578,111,523,380,156)
bugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond repute
bugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by winslow View Post
Here are some quotes that clarify why sunday is observed. Not because Christ or any of the Apostles sanctioned it. It is a tradition of man.



Roman Catholic Confessions


"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."
Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."
"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."
Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.
"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.
"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."
Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.
"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.
"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."
T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.
"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."
Protestant Confessions

Protestant theologians and preachers from a wide spectrum of denominations have been quite candid in admitting that there is no Biblical authority for observing Sunday as a sabbath.
Anglican/Episcopal
Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism , vol. 1, pp.334, 336.
"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."
Canon Eyton, The Ten Commandments , pp. 52, 63, 65.
"There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday .... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters.... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."
Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday .
We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church."
Baptist
Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a paper read before a New York ministers' conference, Nov. 13, 1893, reported in New York Examiner , Nov.16, 1893.
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week .... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.
"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' intercourse with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question . . . never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated.
"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history . . . . But what a pity it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"
William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in Our Day , p. 49.
"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance."
Congregationalist
Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments (New York: Eaton &Mains), p. 127-129.
" . . . it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath - . . 'Me Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday .... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."
Timothy Dwight, Theology: Explained and Defended (1823), Ser. 107, vol. 3, p. 258.
" . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."
Disciples of Christ
Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, Feb. 2, 1824,vol. 1. no. 7, p. 164.
"'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? No man can tell. No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can be changed! It is all old wives' fables to talk of the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio - I think his name is Doctor Antichrist.'
First Day Observance , pp. 17, 19.
"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."
Lutheran
The Sunday Problem , a study book of the United Lutheran Church (1923), p. 36.
"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."
Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, ed. (1 91 1), p. 63.
"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, a shaving been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church Henry John Rose, tr. (1843), p. 186.
"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."
John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday , pp. 15, 16.
"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."
Methodist
Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, p.26.
"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ed. (New York: Eaton & Mains), Sermon 25,vol. 1, p. 221.
"But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken .... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other."
Dwight L. Moody
D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"
Presbyterian
T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.
"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue - the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."
Nice compilation of quotes.

The RCC did no such thing as they claim. Worshipping on Sunday was estableished in the first century more than 200 years before the Council of Laodicea at which there was no RCC representation anyway. The RCC authority did not come into existence till 538 according to your church.

As ususal at least some of the quotes are out of context.

It is the SDA that promote the idea some have transferred the rules of the sabbath to Sunday. I see no one else making this claim. Even those you quote did not practice keeping the rules of the sabbath on Sunday.

Paul said Christians were worshipping (at least meeting) on Sunday in the first century. Paul was not part of the RCC. If I provide Scripture you will simply deny and try to discredit or explain away the plain words.

It is interesting that it appears you make out some of the quoted to say they worship satan.

bugkiller
__________________

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PEANUT GALLERY-FORMAL DEBATE-Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


The debate is here:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Unread 18th June 2012, 11:22 AM
bugkiller's Avatar
Junior Member

Faith: Protestant Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 23rd March 2007
Location: 10 acres in rual America
Posts: 10,227
Blessings: 2,162
My Mood Amazed
Reps: 2,578,111,523,380,138,496 (power: 2,578,111,523,380,156)
bugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond repute
bugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by TruthWave7 View Post
Do you know your Bible? Jesus said that He was "Iam" the eternal self-existent One. On the Mt. Sinai Moses asked God what is your name, the answer was "Iam". Additionally, Paul stated that Jesus was the One who lead them in the wilderness for 40 years. Note, this key text:

I Cor. 10:3-5

"And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."

Therefore, we can conclude that Jesus was the Lawgiver in the Bible. Remember, when God writes something with His own finger, if any of those were to be changed it would be very clearly said in the Scriptures by God himself. But, we have no record of God doing away with the 10 Commandments, so why are you and so many on this forums wanting to do away with something that was written by the finger of God? Just think of the consequences if you find in the end that you were on the wrong side of the argument? How can you lose by simply obeying God's Holy Laws? They were put in place for your benefit, if they were not in place think about how much worse it would be on planet earth? The human race would sink to the level of animals and savages.
Jesus made no such claim as to the Ex passage as being God the Father or even the One to whom Moses spoke with.

bugkiller
__________________

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PEANUT GALLERY-FORMAL DEBATE-Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


The debate is here:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Unread 18th June 2012, 11:27 AM
LittleLambofJesus's Avatar
THAT IS WHAT I SAY!

64 Gender: Male Faith: Christian-Seeker Country: United States Member For 5 Years Committed
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 7th March 2006
Location: God's Country of Texas
Posts: 114,823
Blessings: 1,012,727,987
My Mood Cynical
Blog Entries: 2
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,900)
LittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond repute
LittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond reputeLittleLambofJesus has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by winslow Here are some quotes that clarify why sunday is observed. Not because Christ or any of the Apostles sanctioned it. It is a tradition of man.

Originally Posted by bugkiller View Post
Nice compilation of quotes.

The RCC did no such thing as they claim. Worshipping on Sunday was estableished in the first century more than 200 years before the Council of Laodicea at which there was no RCC representation anyway. The RCC authority did not come into existence till 538 according to your church.

As ususal at least some of the quotes are out of context.

It is the SDA that promote the idea some have transferred the rules of the sabbath to Sunday. I see no one else making this claim. Even those you quote did not practice keeping the rules of the sabbath on Sunday.

Paul said Christians were worshipping (at least meeting) on Sunday in the first century. Paul was not part of the RCC. If I provide Scripture you will simply deny and try to discredit or explain away the plain words.

It is interesting that it appears you make out some of the quoted to say they worship satan.

bugkiller
You do realize that the SDAs view the RCC in Revelation.
Anything to keep it from being the Jews/Jerusalem I suppose [which is my humble view]

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982.../#post44368491

Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast? I am becoming convinced that the 7th day adventists might be right about this after all (I'm not an adventist, we don't have that religion over here).. I quote from William Cooper's book 'Behold a pale horse'...The Pope has challenged world leaders by claiming that the people of the world already recognise the authority of Rome because they observe the Sunday Sabbath that was ordered by the Pope in the council of Laodicea in AD 364. The seventh day, the sabbath as handed down to Moses by God is Saturday, the celebration of Sunday as the sabbath is verification that the people recognize the Pope as superior to God''...
As a child, then a catholic, I asked my parents why we have changed the sabbath day of the Jews to our Sunday, and was told it was because we're christians. I am thinking now, why did Luther and the others not change the sabbath back to Saturday? Maybe they overlooked this matter, as I might be doing now. I am not of the opinion that the Sunday sabbath is 'THE' mark of the beast, but it appears to be 'A' mark of the beast. If it was THE mark of the beast, we'd all be for it.. but what is lacking in the churches, that they maintain this Sunday worship, is it because they are the 'offspring of the harlot' and cannot be anything other than that? And that at the end they will re-unite with the harlot and forget that they were ever protestants?
__________________

__________________
Colossians 2:14
Having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us.
And He hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Hebrews 2:14
Therefore then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, and He in like manner did partake to the same.
That thru the death He might take-away the one having the power of the death, that is the Devil


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation
...............................
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Unread 18th June 2012, 11:32 AM
bugkiller's Avatar
Junior Member

Faith: Protestant Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 23rd March 2007
Location: 10 acres in rual America
Posts: 10,227
Blessings: 2,162
My Mood Amazed
Reps: 2,578,111,523,380,138,496 (power: 2,578,111,523,380,156)
bugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond repute
bugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond reputebugkiller has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by TruthWave7 View Post
Glad to see that you agree with my position. When you break the law, you sin. There is a difference when a genuine Christian who falls in his walk with Jesus, and then confesses and repents of his sin, as compared to someone who knows what the law says, but does not confess his sin, and refuses to obey what he or she knows what is right to do. The contrast can be found in life of Peter vs Judas. They both sinned, but Peter showed heartfelt confession of his sin, while Judas never came to that point, and killed himself, overcome by the guilt of his betrayal of the Son of God.
Well I could see your point if I was subject to the law or the ten commandments. That is not a fact or my position. I spoke as you claim to be subject to them. The point is you are doing the same as the pharisees demanding others do something you will not. Yes there is a Bible verse that supports this statement.

So when you break the sabbath law even as recorded on the stone tablets this Saturday you wilfully sin. What does the Bible say about wilfull sin?

I as a Gentile Christian am not subject to the law as given at Sinai.

bugkiller
__________________

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PEANUT GALLERY-FORMAL DEBATE-Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


The debate is here:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Unread 18th June 2012, 12:06 PM
Cribstyl's Avatar
Veteran

55 Gender: Male Married Faith: Pentecostal Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 7,502
Blessings: 42,881,363
My Mood Praising
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,792)
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by DeaconDean View Post
To the Op.

Try this on for size.

Seventh Day Adventists, from my experience here on the forums and in the Baptist area, have argued ritual observance of the Commandment:

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." -Ex. 20:8 (KJV)

And partly based on:

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." -Mt. 5:19 (KJV)

We are told in Hebrews:

"...he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises." -Heb. 8:6 (KJV)

We are promised and told that Jesus established a "better covenant" on "better promises".

The first was one of work, the second of grace.

But it is deeper than that.

What most do not realize is that the Decalogue is called a "covenant" by God and the scriptures.

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." -Deut. 4:13 (KJV)

Now, what covenant was given to Israel that was also written on two tables of stone?

If the Decalogue was given at Mt. Sinai, and God calls it a "covenant' Himself, and Jesus has already established a better covenant on better promises, why are we to live by the letter of the Law?

"...the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." -2 Cor. 3:6 (KJV)

We do not have to observe ritual observance of the sabbath because the Decalogue says so. we are under a new covenant established by Christ at Calvary.

Ritual observance of the Law "killeth, but the spirit giveth life".

God Bless

Till all are one.
Crib approves of this message.
__________________

__________________
Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Unread 18th June 2012, 12:14 PM
Veteran

Gender: Male Country: United States Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 19th July 2011
Location: Atop Mount Zion "Heaven"
Posts: 1,126
Blessings: 7,144,328
My Mood SpiritFilled
Reps: 40,999,315,583,234,856 (power: 0)
mog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond repute
mog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by bugkiller View Post
So why do you deny the New Covenant? Jesus said very clrarly that it is the current covenant. Jeremiah said the New Covenant was not like the old one.

You just as well tell the truth and change your faith icon to SDA. In refusing to use an icon of what you represnt is a lie that says the SDA is not a Christian orgainzation. Since you will not represent the truth about that why would we consider you representing the truth about something else?

bugkiller
Now you change direction, dear friend, this is another area of discussion so then we must add some more eggs into the basket. The Old and New Covenant are contracts written upon the already established day of the week which, is a literal space in time that coexists in both the physical and cosmological realms. The Old covenant was about Sacrifice and the New Covenant was that the Spirit of God in the Son of Man will be manifest in His people, written upon and within the their hearts and minds and no longer shed literal blood by sacrifices. GOD atoned for sins of the world so that all people, ALL will have an opportunity for Salvation. It was no longer limited to only literal Jews but to gentiles who can become spiritual Jews by being grafted into the Spiritual Vine. The diff between the Old and the New is literal and spiritual.

There is too much to explain, so let's size this up, the Sabbath DAY is a literal day, it cannot be erased or forgotten, whether you honor God on that 7th day for any reason doesn't erase it from the week. You still live in that space of time and must endure it, so how do Christians choose to spend that time?

If we cancel out the Covenant, we must then cancel the literal day. If we were to change the day on which man was Created, then what do we do with ourselves? satan knows if he can destroy the Sabbath Covenant, he can destroy us!

Put all of the eggs in one basket and then think, think and think more.
If we give up the day, the Sabbath, the Covenant or any part of the agreement, we then destroy the Covenant and God, this is one channel as to how the abomination that causes desolation's drives out the true Christ from the hearts of believers. The false Christ or A false Christ then enters and takes position on the Throne that is in that Temple (you).

Any misunderstanding of this Covenant will certainly separate all hearts from the true God of Israel who is Genesis and Revelation, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending. He always was and always will be regardless of what any man says against Him. He will be vindicated very soon!

I assume that you, bugkiller, is an SDA church member. I was once many things, including SDA, so I know religion very well. I've examined the SDA doctrine as GOD instructed me to do and I find the church is the most dangerous one on earth, as she is the only dominant Sabbath keeping movement in this last-day. This said, according to the Prophecy and our time and the strategy required of satan to overthrow the world, satan must FIRST send in the false prophet before the authentic, because if he does not, he cannot destroy any soul of the remnant. The devil is not focused on the outside world that is outside of the Church-Body, satan is focused on that baby whom the woman is about to give birth to; the dragon is watching and waiting for the Everlasting Gospel to arrive and it's due right now as we speak.

The world is asleep, they cannot understand any part of this unless they are chosen. God chooses only a remnant out of the House of Israel, it is the House of Jacob who will be saved because they will know their sin and repent.

The House of Israel must be shown their transgression because they refuse to acknowledge and repent, therefore their transgression is unpardonable by their own choice. There is a difference between sin and transgression and the lack of this knowledge will cause God's people to perish.

Oh my dear brethren! I Beseech you, pay attention!!! STUDY and stop listening to others, listen to HIM WHO SPEAKS TO YOUR EARS.
__________________


Last edited by mog144; 18th June 2012 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Unread 18th June 2012, 12:21 PM
Veteran

Gender: Male Country: United States Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 19th July 2011
Location: Atop Mount Zion "Heaven"
Posts: 1,126
Blessings: 7,144,328
My Mood SpiritFilled
Reps: 40,999,315,583,234,856 (power: 0)
mog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond repute
mog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond reputemog144 has a reputation beyond repute
Again, I read posts and you people continue bickering over things that aren't so. You discuss how to keep the Sabbath, and here you are in captivity to the Beast, not even able to keep the Sabbath to honor the Creator. The Israelite's could not keep the Sabbath and honor God until they were freed. The Truth will make you free when you believe your condition so that you may then repent.

Revelation says we are spiritual Egypt and Sodom, the Kingdom is yet to come, this said, where are you?

If we do not have the Holy Spirit of Yahweh, the Father who is the Seed of ALL Creation then we cannot call Him our God or Creator because those who don't know Him only know satan and have the spirit of satan and appear to God as satan just as in Ezekiel ch 28, when God looks at rebellious flesh and sees the adversary. God sees either His own reflection in us or He sees satan's.

The problem that everybody has is that nobody is willing to admit that they are wrong, it's pride that blocks their path, satan is flaunting this in everything so that you absorb this mind controlling codec in what you hear. The devil uses brainwashing techniques and he controls the entire world by this, causing us to evolve into his characters and he calls us his army.

I do understand how this impacts you people but I'm not here to compromise or delay, for time is running out very fast. Watch the news that you won't find in America. We are being suppressed by satan through earthly agents. You will see this come to light soon, it is written that every eye shall see Him and every person will acknowledge Him, whether you believe this or not!

God have Mercy on this world!
__________________


Last edited by mog144; 18th June 2012 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Unread 18th June 2012, 12:29 PM
Cribstyl's Avatar
Veteran

55 Gender: Male Married Faith: Pentecostal Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 7,502
Blessings: 42,881,363
My Mood Praising
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,792)
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by bugkiller View Post
Nice compilation of quotes.

The RCC did no such thing as they claim. Worshipping on Sunday was estableished in the first century more than 200 years before the Council of Laodicea at which there was no RCC representation anyway. The RCC authority did not come into existence till 538 according to your church.

As ususal at least some of the quotes are out of context.

It is the SDA that promote the idea some have transferred the rules of the sabbath to Sunday. I see no one else making this claim. Even those you quote did not practice keeping the rules of the sabbath on Sunday.

Paul said Christians were worshipping (at least meeting) on Sunday in the first century. Paul was not part of the RCC. If I provide Scripture you will simply deny and try to discredit or explain away the plain words.

It is interesting that it appears you make out some of the quoted to say they worship satan.

bugkiller
Crib approve of this message (as always)
__________________

__________________
Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Unread 18th June 2012, 12:36 PM
Cribstyl's Avatar
Veteran

55 Gender: Male Married Faith: Pentecostal Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 7,502
Blessings: 42,881,363
My Mood Praising
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,792)
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
You kidding me.........

Originally Posted by mog144 View Post
Now you change direction, dear friend, this is another area of discussion so then we must add some more eggs into the basket. The Old and New Covenant are contracts written upon the already established day of the week which, is a literal space in time that coexists in both the physical and cosmological realms. The Old covenant was about Sacrifice and the New Covenant was that the Spirit of God in the Son of Man will be manifest in His people, written upon and within the their hearts and minds and no longer shed literal blood by sacrifices. GOD atoned for sins of the world so that all people, ALL will have an opportunity for Salvation. It was no longer limited to only literal Jews but to gentiles who can become spiritual Jews by being grafted into the Spiritual Vine. The diff between the Old and the New is literal and spiritual.

There is too much to explain, so let's size this up, the Sabbath DAY is a literal day, it cannot be erased or forgotten, whether you honor God on that 7th day for any reason doesn't erase it from the week. You still live in that space of time and must endure it, so how do Christians choose to spend that time?

If we cancel out the Covenant, we must then cancel the literal day. If we were to change the day on which man was Created, then what do we do ourselves?

Put all of the eggs in one basket and then think, think and think more.
If we give up the day, the Sabbath, the Covenant or any part of the agreement, we then destroy the Covenant and God, this is one channel as to how the abomination that causes desolation's drives out the true Christ from the hearts of believers. The false Christ or A false Christ then enters and takes position on the Throne that is in that Temple (you).

Any misunderstanding of this Covenant will certainly separate all hearts from the true God of Israel who is Genesis and Revelation, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending. He always was and always will be regardless of what any man says against Him. He will be vindicated very soon!

I assume that you, bugkiller, is an SDA church member. I was once many things, including SDA, so I know religion very well. I've examined the SDA doctrine as GOD instructed me to do and I find the church is the most dangerous one on earth, as she is the only dominant Sabbath keeping movement in this last-day. This said, according to the Prophecy and our time and the strategy required of satan to overthrow the world, satan must FIRST send in the false prophet before the authentic, because if he does not, he cannot destroy any soul of the remnant. The devil is not focused on the outside world that is outside of the Church-Body, satan is focused on that baby whom the woman is about to give birth to; the dragon is watching and waiting for the Everlasting Gospel to arrive and it's due right now as we speak.

The world is asleep, they cannot understand any part of this unless they are chosen. God chooses only a remnant out of the House of Israel, it is the House of Jacob who will be saved because they will know their sin and repent.

The House of Israel must be shown their transgression because they refuse to acknowledge and repent, therefore their transgression is unpardonable by their own choice. There is a difference between sin and transgression and the lack of this knowledge will cause God's people to perish.

Oh my dear brethren! I Beseech you, pay attention!!! STUDY and stop listening to others, listen to HIM WHO SPEAKS TO YOUR EARS.
Dude....stop your madness.....Calling Bugkiller a SDA is the biggest error I've seen at CF.
__________________

__________________
Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to General Theology

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 AM.