Book of Common Worship - Eucharist

CatholicAtHeart · #1 15th June 2012, 02:01 PM

So I've been to the Eucharist using the BCP, and my local church uses the BCW - as you know I've done my bouncing between Anglican and Roman Catholic. One thing I've noticed, the Eucharist in the Book of Common Worship is so very similar to the Novus Ordo Roman Catholic Mass, I was just wondering how this has happened and has the NO Mass played a part in the formation? Because I don't think the Eucharist from the BCP is much like the BCW at all.

MKJ · #2 17th June 2012, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by CatholicAtHeart

So I've been to the Eucharist using the BCP, and my local church uses the BCW - as you know I've done my bouncing between Anglican and Roman Catholic. One thing I've noticed, the Eucharist in the Book of Common Worship is so very similar to the Novus Ordo Roman Catholic Mass, I was just wondering how this has happened and has the NO Mass played a part in the formation? Because I don't think the Eucharist from the BCP is much like the BCW at all.

Yes, those newer liturgies that were developed in the 1960's and later in all of the liturgical churches come from common academic origins, and there was a lot of hope that they were a sign that real union was going to happen between those groups. The Catholic NO was one of the earlier ones, but not, IIRC, the earliest.

BrisbaneAnglican · #3 22nd June 2012, 09:14 AM

its the same here in Australia. The Anglican Eucharist service is also exactly the same as the Catholic Mass. it's like the bones of both Liturgies are the same with prayer that can be added in to make them "feel" catholic or feel "Anglican"
i.e whilst the bulk of the liturgy is the same the Catholic mass has it's historic confession at the beginning where as the Anglican Eucharist has it's traditional collect for purity at the beginning etc.

frankly I think it's this that allowed me to make the transition from Catholicism to Anglicanism so smoothly.

as a Catholic I often felt the lack of reverence was due to the 'New Mass' but considering the Anglican Eucharist is 70% identical to the new mass yet 10000000000000% more reverent and traditional I had to come to the conclusion that it must be Catholics themselves who are at fault for what I can only describe as the spiritual wasteland that is modern Catholicism.

LuxMundi · #4 22nd June 2012, 11:05 AM

CW is a welcome return to the historic Eucharist away from the misguided invention of Cranmer's BCP service.

MKJ · #5 22nd June 2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by LuxMundi

CW is a welcome return to the historic Eucharist away from the misguided invention of Cranmer's BCP service.

Or it's a postmodern attempt to create a new vision of Christianity by removing fragments of different texts from their various liturgical and cultural contexts and placing them in a new one.

mark1 · #6 22nd June 2012, 12:54 PM

IMHO, Orthopraxy (to use your term from another thread) is more important than perceived reverence. Some have called the US and parts of Australia an Anglican spiritual wasteland. This assessment isn't limited to Catholics. I think it less associated with the international Church name, but rather a function of the local congregation (and perhaps the local bishop).

I would suggest that in many parts of the world, including the UK and the US, Catholics and Anglicans get along rather well, and are similar in their spirituality.

For those whose goal is reverence, many have left Anglicanism for Orthodoxy.

Your focus is on the format of the mass. I would guess that a large majority of Anglicans do not even use that term. Their services would also likely not be reverent enough for your tastes.

We Anglicans are diverse. We are Anglo-Catholic. We are evangelical. We are charismatic. We are liberal (broad church) in our churchmanship.

Originally Posted by BrisbaneAnglican

.

as a Catholic I often felt the lack of reverence was due to the 'New Mass' but considering the Anglican Eucharist is 70% identical to the new mass yet 10000000000000% more reverent and traditional I had to come to the conclusion that it must be Catholics themselves who are at fault for what I can only describe as the spiritual wasteland that is modern Catholicism.

MKJ · #7 22nd June 2012, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by mark1

IMHO, Orthopraxy (to use your term from another thread) is more important than perceived reverence. Some have called the US and parts of Australia an Anglican spiritual wasteland. This assessment isn't limited to Catholics. I think it less associated with the international Church name, but rather a function of the local congregation (and perhaps the local bishop).

I would suggest that in many parts of the world, including the UK and the US, Catholics and Anglicans get along rather well, and are similar in their spirituality.

For those whose goal is reverence, many have left Anglicanism for Orthodoxy.

Your focus is on the format of the mass. I would guess that a large majority of Anglicans do not even use that term. Their services would also likely not be reverent enough for your tastes.

We Anglicans are diverse. We are Anglo-Catholic. We are evangelical. We are charismatic. We are liberal (broad church) in our churchmanship.

I don't know Mark, I'd have to say that over-all I've found Catholic parishes more lacking in that sort of thing than Anglican ones of all kinds. That's a generalization of course bu I can see why someone would feel that way.

Just as a simple example, I have never been in an Anglican church where there was a mass exodus of the congregation coming back from receiving the Eucharist, but I have seen it again and again in Catholic parishes.

I do think the liturgy is a factor but I think there are also other issues on the Catholic side that feed into it.

Timothy · #8 1st July 2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by MKJ

Or it's a postmodern attempt to create a new vision of Christianity by removing fragments of different texts from their various liturgical and cultural contexts and placing them in a new one.

That's closer to more accurate, actually. CW was at it's heart, founded on compromise (much as the BCP was, actually). I ought to at some point write an article for STR on the more general foundation of the Series 1->2->3->ASB->CW transition based on my research + interviews with +Stancliffe and +Buchanan

ebia · #9 1st July 2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by LuxMundi

CW is a welcome return to the historic Eucharist away from the misguided invention of Cranmer's BCP service.

Well, a return to whatever you want to make it.

Izdaari · #10 1st July 2012, 11:44 PM

My church uses its own custom liturgies, based on the BCP and also often on Benedictine or Franciscan materials. We are TEC & ELCA (yes, both), and "emergent" Anglo-Catholic with Benedictine influence.