| Covenant Theology The forum for the discussion of the theological covenants. |
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25th June 2012, 06:14 PM
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Reps: 1,096,048,670,777,995,392 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by JLB777  Yes, we know all the old testament scriptures that speak of The Sabbath. Please don't try and change the subject at hand, which is Jews who are keeping the Sabbath, in Jerusalem, during Daniel's 70th week, while there are re-instituted Temple Sacrifices taking place. I have no doubt the Jewish people will be keeping the Sabbath. Now please answer my question
You err, not knowing YHWH & Yehoshua Messiah's Way of Salvation. The Covenant of salvation was made by YHWH exclusively with Israel and Israelites. YHWH also welcomes Gentiles who take hold of that Covenant to sojourn as believers with Israel. Those Gentiles who join themselves to YHWH, He includes them in the same responsibilities and blessings which Israelites have and hold under The Covenant.
Messiah came exclusively to the house of Israel, bringing the same Message of The Covenant instituted by YHWH: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Mt 15:24 After Messiah completed His witness and offer to Israel, He then sent His apostles to all the (Gentile) nations to invite those who desire to sojourn as believers with believing Israel, for their salvation: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Jn 10:16 So, for these reasons, it is both true that 1) Yehoshua was only Israel's Messiah, and that 2) Gentiles are also saved by Yehoshua. Messiah's Message was exactly the same as the Message and Way given by YHWH in the so-called "Old" Testament.
Just because animal sacrifices are taking place in Jerusalem in the Temple that is about to be rebuilt, DOES THAT VALIDATE ANIMAL SACRIFICES AS BEING A LEGITIMATE SACRIFICE FOR SINS? YES OR NO?
Again, you err, not knowing the Scriptures. There are other reasons to offer burnt sacrifices to YHWH other than for our sins.
Last edited by netzarim; 25th June 2012 at 06:29 PM.
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25th June 2012, 07:23 PM
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Reps: 972,573,540,537,258,112 (power: 972,573,540,537,262) | | Originally Posted by netzarim Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if you are trying to distinguish between YHWH's commandments, and Messiah's commandments; and that we are only to obey Messiah's commandments.
The following, to which you are referring, is the unedited Word of God. These are the commands God gave him to speak.
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father." (Jn 14:15, 21).
And what are the commands the Father gave him to speak?
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." (Jn 13:34).
"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (not if you devote yourselves to written regulations). (Jn 13:35)
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (Jn 15:12)
"This is my command: Love each other." (Jn 15:17)
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." (Lk 6:27-28)
What the Word of God shows is that - Christ gave law with the same authority as the Father gave law,
- and the law of Christ which he gave is the law of God, they are one, they are the same.
The commands the Father gave Christ to speak are the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), which is love (Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10),
and because the Father gave them to him to speak, they are the law of God (1Co 9:21), of which John speaks.
It's all pretty clear, don't you think.
__________________
This is what the LORD says:
"Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches,
but let him who boasts boast in this: that he understands and knows me,
that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,"
delcares the LORD. |
25th June 2012, 07:39 PM
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Reps: 972,573,540,537,258,112 (power: 972,573,540,537,262) | | Originally Posted by netzarim The disciples came to Messiah on the mount of Olives, and asked Him "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" He answered, "... pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day ..." Mt 24:20
Those two verses are 17 verses apart, and where vv.15-22 are a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Messiah clearly implied that the Sabbath will continue to be observed by His faithful believers until the end of the world.
Messiah is not referring to the end of the world here, he is referring to observance of the Sabbath at the end of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
The Word of God states that the Sabbath was a shadow of the reality we now have in Christ (Col 2:16-17), where we rest from all works to earn favor with God.
__________________
This is what the LORD says:
"Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches,
but let him who boasts boast in this: that he understands and knows me,
that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,"
delcares the LORD. |
25th June 2012, 07:52 PM
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Reps: 53,283,354,086,774,896 (power: 53,283,354,086,775) | | Originally Posted by netzarim You err, not knowing YHWH & Yehoshua Messiah's Way of Salvation. The Covenant of salvation was made by YHWH exclusively with Israel and Israelites. YHWH also welcomes Gentiles who take hold of that Covenant to sojourn as believers with Israel. Those Gentiles who join themselves to YHWH, He includes them in the same responsibilities and blessings which Israelites have and hold under The Covenant.
Messiah came exclusively to the house of Israel, bringing the same Message of The Covenant instituted by YHWH: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Mt 15:24 After Messiah completed His witness and offer to Israel, He then sent His apostles to all the (Gentile) nations to invite those who desire to sojourn as believers with believing Israel, for their salvation: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Jn 10:16 So, for these reasons, it is both true that 1) Yehoshua was only Israel's Messiah, and that 2) Gentiles are also saved by Yehoshua. Messiah's Message was exactly the same as the Message and Way given by YHWH in the so-called "Old" Testament.
Again, you err, not knowing the Scriptures. There are other reasons to offer burnt sacrifices to YHWH other than for our sins.
Thats what I thought. You used a scripture that blew up in your face and now you won't answer a simple direct straight forward question.
JLB  |
25th June 2012, 08:59 PM
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Reps: 1,096,048,670,777,995,392 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by JLB777 Thats what I thought. You used a scripture that blew up in your face and now you won't answer a simple direct straight forward question. JLB
I stand by my quotation of Isaiah 56, and I answered your question. I do not respond to goading, nor shouting. |
25th June 2012, 09:02 PM
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Reps: 1,096,048,670,777,995,392 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Clare73 What the Word of God shows is that Christ gave law with the same authority as the Father gave law, and the law of Christ which he gave is the law of God, they are one, they are the same.
The Law of Messiah is the law of the Father; they are one and the same. The Law of Messiah, and the Law of the Father is the law of Love.
1. Love for Elohim, and
2. Love for neighbors.
All commandments, whether Messiah's or the Father's, fall under one or both of those two categories.
Agreed? |
25th June 2012, 09:36 PM
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Reps: 972,573,540,537,258,112 (power: 972,573,540,537,262) | | Originally Posted by netzarim The Law of Messiah is the law of the Father; they are one and the same. The Law of Messiah, and the Law of the Father is the law of Love.
1. Love for Elohim, and
2. Love for neighbors.
All commandments, whether Messiah's or the Father's, fall under one or both of those two categories.
Agreed?
Almost. . .the Law of Messiah is the Law of the Father.
__________________
This is what the LORD says:
"Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches,
but let him who boasts boast in this: that he understands and knows me,
that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,"
delcares the LORD. |
25th June 2012, 09:46 PM
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Reps: 53,283,354,086,774,896 (power: 53,283,354,086,775) | | Originally Posted by netzarim I stand by my quotation of Isaiah 56, and I answered your question. I do not respond to goading, nor shouting.
Your scripture concerning the Sabbath is invalid!
The Sabbath is a shadow, the reality is Christ, who is our rest!
The New Covenant in His blood is for all the nations of the earth.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
When the new Temple is built, will you participate in the sacrifice of animals? http://www.templeinstitute.org/
JLB |
25th June 2012, 11:05 PM
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Reps: 1,096,048,670,777,995,392 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Clare73 Originally Posted by netzarim The Law of Messiah is the law of the Father; they are one and the same. The Law of Messiah, and the Law of the Father is the law of Love.
1. Love for Elohim, and
2. Love for neighbors.
All commandments, whether Messiah's or the Father's, fall under one or both of those two categories.
Agreed?
Almost. . .the Law of Messiah is the Law of the Father.
That's what I wrote above, as I highlighted. |
26th June 2012, 08:39 AM
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Reps: 972,573,540,537,258,112 (power: 972,573,540,537,262) | | Originally Posted by netzarim That's what I wrote above, as I highlighted.
If they are one, if they are the same, without the "and," but with the "is," then we are in agreement!
__________________
This is what the LORD says:
"Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches,
but let him who boasts boast in this: that he understands and knows me,
that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,"
delcares the LORD. | | |
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