Unorthodox TheologyA forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
Orthodox* and Unorthodox members welcome
I used to teach Hell, Fire and Brimstone. Then I learned sound exegetical principles based upon sound hermeneutics - wow - I discovered that the Bible was very clear on the topic!
prove it,
.....good luck
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Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST
There is only one unforgivable sin (Mat 12:31-32) which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Deny Jesus and it can be forgiven, but that is not the case for someone who truly hates God. Mat 12 speaks of sins that can be forgiven in this age vs. sins that cannot be forgiven until the age to come, but it says quite clearly that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven.
Your question poses a false supposition by forcing the false assumption that lots of people will suffer eternal torment. A question based on a false supposition has no answer.
Welcome! You are the only Universalist hereo now, though one or two have passed through here over the last year or two that I've been here. Everyone else here that denies eternal torment is an annihilationist .
Wow. I am a Universalist!?!?!?
I never knew it. I must admit, I might be an annihilationist. It's a certain possibility.
As far as the whole eternal torture story.........thats all I hear from 99% of preachers. Both modern and old time preachers.
Thanks Bob... ...The LAST, in this case, is quoted ...FIRST...
So... I "Thought" I would address your opening post:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
God says in Rev 14:10 that the Lamb (God the Son) and his holy ones (Angels -- and saints) are at the brink of hell the entire time "they will suffer... IN The Presence of the Lamb and of His angels".
FIRST -- Revelation is written in SYMBOLIC language -- Rev 1:1 -- no one is (or ever has been) at the "brink of hell"... as "hell" is a FEAR-FILLED creation of man, not of God. GOD is against FEAR, and it is HIS LOVE that OPPOSES IT -- 1 John 4:18 -- and is casting FEAROUT. of His Children, ...not promoting it to THEM.
And btw... there is no such thing mentioned in the WORD, as "god the SON"... another UNBIBLICAL manifestation/creation of MAN, not of GOD.
SECOND -- The BEAST and his "image", is MAN in the FLESH... Can you not see the "WORSHIP" of "MAN" running rampant in this world?
Man worships his own image by nature, as was displayed in the OPPOSING of the command of GOD in the beginning -- Gen 3:6 -- by EATING that which was forbidden, man (which are "BEASTS" according to YHVH -- Ecc 3:18) -- "worshipped" his/her own decision, rather than the COMMAND of YHVH God -- Gen 2:17
THIRD -- We ARE in the presence of the LAMB... NOW! And without a doubt, we all ARE SUFFERING in one way or another... some more than others ...dependent upon how we have "SOWN"... do we "REAP" -- Gal 6:8 -- are we experiencing his wrath NOW -- Psalm 90:9
Rom 1:18 -- "for the WRATH of God... IS (not will be)... revealed from Heaven against ALL UNGODLINESS and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS of MEN, who hold the TRUTH in Unrighteousness -- When you SIN, ...you, ...in that moment, ..."hold the TRUTH" in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS...
ALL men partake in UNGODLINESS, and/or or UNRIGHTEOUSNESS... and in "SOWING" such, ..."REAP" the consequences of that "sowing", which include varying types of SUFFERING (mental, physical, spiritual), while IN the FLESH...
If we are honest and OPEN OUR EYES, ...the examples of "suffering" are all around us, and in us... and in our "sufferings", do we follow that which the Savior endured... which made Him perfect.
SUFFERING is part of the processing of PERFECTION -- Heb 2:10-- Rom 9:21 -- Jer 18:4 -- and is DIRECTED by GOD to be so -- Jer 29:14
GOD "drove" us into our captivity by His DECLARATION of us -- Isaiah 46:10 -- and it is HE which GATHERS us FROM that "captivity" (bondage), being the SAVIOR ...of us -- Isaiah 43:11 -- Hosea 13:4
The name "JESUS" [IESOUS -- #G2424] means: YHVHSAVES.
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Christ said that the suffering ENDS in the "Destruction of BOTH body and soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:28
FIRST -- Where are the words in this verse, that SAY --- the "suffering" ENDS "in the destruction of both body and soul in fiery hell"? Here is the verse:
Matt 10:28 -- and fear not them which kill the body, but are not ABLE to kill the soul; but rather fear Him which ...IS ABLE... to destroy the soul and body in GEHENNA.
That you might own a GUN, and that you are ABLE to kill human beings with it, does not thereby MEAN that you SHALL do so... nor should anyone FALSELY... ASSUME, that you would do such a thing, on the BASIS that you are the OWNER of said GUN!
JESUS never once used the word "hell"... He spoke ARAMAIC (a semetic ancestral language related to HEBREW)...
The word "hell" does not appear in either of these languages...
Actually the GREEK word GEHENNA[#G1067] does not mean literally mean "Hell" (an English word), it is an actual place (since it appears you are looking at this verse in "LITERAL"), just outside Jerusalem... which today is a BEAUTIFUL VALLEY. And means "the Valley of the Sons of Ge-Hinnom"...
That some (religiously biased) translators have used the word "Hell" as the translation of Gehenna... those translators one day (unfortunately), will be amongst these -- Matt 7:22-23
Those translators and their followers, would do WELL to read -- James 3:6-10 -- these things OUGHT NOT so to BE"...
Actually there are 28 (and counting) versions of the Bible, which do not use the word HELL at all:
SECOND -- Actually nothing is said in this verse about GOD actually destroying the body and soul, it simply notes that He is ...ABLE... to do so. ...GOD is "ABLE" to do ANYTHING... however, just because He is "ABLE", does not mean for a moment, that He shall ever DO... "EVERYTHING" that He is "ABLE" to do.
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Jude tells us in the book of Jude - that Sodom and Gomorrah are exhibited to us as "examples of undergoing the punishment of eternal fire".
FIRST --- Actually Bob... Sodom (& Gomorrah), shall RETURN to their Former (1st) ESTATE:
Ez 16:55 --- When thy sisters SODOM and her daughters shall RETURN to their FORMER ESTATE, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then THOU and thy daughters shall RETURN to YOUR FORMER ESTATE...
SECOND --- The word "ETERNAL" is erroneously applied by any FINITE, for no FINITE truly comprehends the meaning of this word. Its meaning includes WITHOUT BEGINNING. Until a FINITE can explain how ANYTHING (including God), can be WITHOUT BEGINNING, then he/she uses a word INVALIDLY which he/she does not COMPREHEND.
THIRD -- the word AIONIOS as it appears (erroneously) translated "eternal" in -- Jude 7 -- is a derivitive of the word AION which means AGE, and which ALWAYS deals with the CREATED entity "TIME"... Which entity (time) came FORTH from ETERNITY... which PRECEEDED its creation. That which is CREATED, has both Beginning and End... that which is ETERNAL is WITHOUT Beginning or End.
Being a descendent of the word AION... "AIONIOS" is also a word which deals with TIME and does NOT IMPLY "eternal" accordingly...
The FINITE (time oriented) "FIRE" which burned SODOM & GOMORRAH:
(1)began "burning" (for Sodom & gomorrah were not ALWAYS burning) and,
(2) these cities are no longer "burning"...
Not one, but BOTH of these DISQUALIFY this "FIRE" from being -- (1) WITHOUT BEGINNING (eternal), and -- (2) certainly shows an ENDING. (eternal has NO END)
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Eternal torment - is not a Bible doctrine.
I could not AGREE with you more concerning this "thought"!
PEACE... ...willieH
Last edited by WillieH; 10th August 2012 at 03:33 PM.
I used to teach Hell, Fire and Brimstone. Then I learned sound exegetical principles based upon sound hermeneutics - wow - I discovered that the Bible was very clear on the topic!
I think you missed the only thing one needs to learn from scripture , that God teaches ALL who are under grace Himself, no need whatever for 'hermeneutics' to understand God's Truth about Love, only sinners use it to try and justify their continuing sin [but Paul ,Jesus, and the saints and prophets say clearly NO-ONE gets to be with God till they stop sinning and Love instead]
so here it is, the bits you missed out :-
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
This is the REAL and ONLY new covenant of God copied from Jer 31:31-34, and it STATES that God will teach ALL under grace Himself, just as Jesus said [John 16:13]
thus there is no point in interpreting scripture unless one wants to deceive oneself, God will explain all Jesus ever said Himself simply if one stops sinning - water baptism taken seriously, unlike the many splashed with water who think that is all there is to it, no need to stop sinning because of grace... wrong! :-
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? ...
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
the point is then that EVERYONE who relies on hermeneutics DEMONSTRATES that they have not learned from God, but no spirit baptism to know God's Truth means no salvation , no entering God's kingdom ...God WILL teach all men [Joel 2:28, John 16:13] BUT NOT NOW , LATER , once the kingdom is set up by the FEW [Matt 7:14, Rev 7:3-8, Jude 1:14] SAINTS...
SO stop sinning and Love in obedience to Jesus and God Himself will teach you PURE Truth of God, not the nonsense taught by sinners in frocks worldwide and discussed on the web... the WAY to the Truth is ONLY by ceasing sin , obeying god and Jesus by becoming Loving, that is why so FEW do so in this life , most think sin is OK or are taught that it is ok to keep sinning so long as one 'confesses' to a sinner every week... wrong, sin is not Love, sin is hurting others, and Jesus will NOT take any still sinners, he has said so :-
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
One cannot follow Jesus unless one treats him as Lord by OBEYING his command to Love, and WHEN one does , only then will God TEACH one Himself... no chance of the CORRUPTION that divides the 'churches' of sinners, of Satan :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
shocking truth to the many, but Jesus told us Satan will rule mass religion of mankind -Rev 13:3-4
trans., the destruction that one causes, waste (Polyb. 6, Ila, 10 opp. τηρηοις; PTebt. 276, 34) ειστιη. απωλεια, αυτητηρηοιςμυτου; why this waste Qf the ointment? Mk 14: 4; cf. Mt 26: 8.
intrans. the destruction that one experiences, annihilation both complete and in process, ruin,(so usu. LXX; Ep. Arist. 167; Philo, Aet. M. 20; 74; Jos., Ant. 15, 62, Vi. 272; Test. Dan 4: 5; but also in Polyb., Plut., Epict. et al. [Ndgeli 35]; therm. Wr. 12, 16; PGM 4, 1247f παραδιδωμισεειςτομελανχαοςεντηρηοιςαπωλειαις Ac 25: 16 t.r.; (w. ολεθρον)βυθιζεινειςοκαιαπωλεια,plunge into utter destruction 1 Ti 6: 9; ειωαιεισαπωλεια,perish Ac 8: 20; -προςτηρηοιςιδιαναπωλεια,to their own ruin 2 Pt 3: 16; (w. πλανη) 2 Cl 1: 7. Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked: Mt 7: 13;
ειςαπωλειαυπαγειν,go to destr. Rv 17: 8, 11. (Opp. περιποιησις) Hb 10: 39. (Opp. σωτηρια) Phil 1: 28. ημερακρισεωςκαιαπωλεια (Job 21: 30) τηρηοιςασεβωνανθρωπωνday of judgment and (consequent) destruction of wicked men 2 Pt 3: 7. Hence the end of the wicked is described as απωλεια Phil 3: 19. σκευηοργηςκατηρτισμεναειςαπωλεια, objects of (his) anger, ready for destruction Ro 9: 22 (Is 54: 16). It will come quickly 2 Pt 2:1, is not sleeping vs. 3. Appears as a consequence of death (cf. Job 28, 22): οθανατοςαπωλειαεχειαιωνιον Hs 6, 2, 4; God laughs at it 1 Cl 57: 4 (Pr 1: 26). Those destined to destruction are ωιοιτηςαπωλεια. J 17: 12; AP 1: 2. The anti-christ is also νιοςτηςαπωλεια 2 Th 2: 3. αιρεσεισαπωλειαςheresies that lead to destr. 2 Pt 2: 1; σογματατηςαπωλεια. AP 1: 1. M-M= JH Moulton and G Milligan
A Greek-English Lexicon by William Arndt and F Wilbur Gingrich
He-Man, is this Lexicon available online, and do you have a link?
He-Man, is this Lexicon available online, and do you have a link?
Sorry, but you have to buy it. I have a hard copy that I scanned into my computer.
rndt, W., Gingrich, F. W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (1996, c1979). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature : A translation and adaption of the fourth revised and augmented edition of Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Worterbuch zu den Schrift en des Neuen Testaments und der ubrigen urchristlichen Literatur (27). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
shocking truth to the many, but Jesus told us Satan will rule mass religion of mankind -Rev 13:3-4
No, Christ told us that the rulers of this world are the accusers who hung Christ on the tree with false accusations. Lucifer Isaiah 14:12 addresses the conquered king of Babylon as Lucifer “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!” This verse was interpreted by early Christians as referring to Satan. The name originally refers to the planet we call Venus; but because of its use in this verse has falsely come to be connected with the tradition of Satan’s fall from Heaven.
Baal. Originally the name of a Middle Eastern sky-god worshipped by the original inhabitants of Israel, much denounced but occasionally worshipped by Jews. In the Bible his worship is fiercely denounced, and his name eventually became synonymous with “Devil.” He is also often referred to as “Baalzebul” (“Lord of Lords”), although these were evidently originally separate gods.
In ancient Greek religion and myth, Pluto (Πλούτων, Ploutōn) was a name for the ruler of the underworld; the god was also known as Hades, a name for the underworld itself. This deity has two major myths: in Greek cosmogony, he received the rule of the underworld in a three-way division of sovereignty over the world, with his brothers Zeus ruling Heaven and Poseidon the Sea; and he abducts Persephone to be his wife and the queen of his realm.[1] In other myths, he plays a secondary role, mostly as the possessor of a quest-object.
Pluto (French Pluton and Italian Plutone) is commonly used as the name of the classical ruler of the underworld in subsequent Western literature and other art forms. Hansen, Classical Mythology, p. 182
“Cernunnos: Origin and Transformation of a Celtic Divinity,” American Journal of Archaeology 55 (1951), p. 28, Phyllis Fray Bober,
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/erebus.html
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
-- and since you responded to my OP - here it is in one piece.
God says in Rev 14:10 that the Lamb (God the Son) and his holy ones (Angels -- and saints) are at the brink of hell the entire time "they will suffer... IN The Presence of the Lamb and of His angels".
Christ said that the suffering ENDS in the "Destruction of BOTH body and soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:28
Jude tells us in the book of Jude - that Sodom and Gomorrah are exhibited to us as "examples of undergoing the punishment of eternal fire".
Eternal torment - is not a Bible doctrine.
Originally Posted by WillieH
willieH: Hi Bob...
Thanks Bob... ...The LAST, in this case, is quoted ...FIRST...
So... I "Thought" I would address your opening post:
FIRST -- Revelation is written in SYMBOLIC language -- Rev 1:1 -- no one is (or ever has been) at the "brink of hell"... as "hell" is a FEAR-FILLED creation of man, not of God. GOD is against FEAR, and it is HIS LOVE that OPPOSES IT -- 1 John 4:18 -- and is casting FEAROUT. of His Children, ...not promoting it to THEM.
God said that He is the one to be feared "fear Him who is able to destroy BOTH body and soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:28 (BTW - He is also the one who is able to keep you from falling).
Isaiah 8 "Let ME be your fear - let ME be your dread" - for the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. In Exodus 20 God says that the fear of God is intended to keep the people from sin.
Not that we walk around in terror. But just as you have a healthy fear of opening your car door when the car is going 80 MPH - yet are not driving around "in terror" so also we should fear transgression of the law of God.
Just because some words are symbolic in Revelation - does not mean all words are symbolic in that letter.
God says in Rev 14:10 that the Lamb (God the Son) and his holy ones (Angels -- and saints) are at the brink of hell the entire time "they will suffer... IN The Presence of the Lamb and of His angels".
The interesting thing there is that it not just the presence of the Lamb in which that torment takes place - but also the presence of His holy ones.
THIRD -- We ARE in the presence of the LAMB... NOW! And without a doubt, we all ARE SUFFERING in one way or another... some more than others ...dependent upon how we have "SOWN"... do we "REAP" -- Gal 6:8 -- are we experiencing his wrath NOW -- Psalm 90:9
The Lamb of God - Jesus Christ - God the Son can be with us as God - but "His angels" are not God and the text says that this event takes place in their non-god presence as well. They are literally stuck at the brink of hell for the limited amount of time that it lasts.
Notice that in Rev 14:9-12 the saints are contrasted with the wicked. The saints do not suffer the torment of fire and brimstone in the presence of the Lamb and of His holy ones -- rather they are those who "keep the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" by contrast to the wicked who will at that future time suffer torment day and night in real fire and brimstone. (At least if we are to believe the text).
The text does not say "They are already tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the lamb" -- the text does not say "they used be tormented" -- rather it says "they WILL be tormented".
The text warns against the future event of the mark of the beast. It warns against accepting it - and then it warns against the punishment of the wicked -- who at that future time (of Rev 20 after the millennium) will be tormented in fire and brimstone.
In Ezek 18 and John 11 we are reminded that the saints do not suffer death but the wicked do. In Rev 20 we are told of the death that the wicked suffer but that the righteous do not suffer - it is the 2nd death - and it is after the millennium.
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have never been rebuilt - neither will they ever be. Rather it is the people that suffered and the people that will be raised up according to Rev 20 -- at the 2nd resurrection after the millennium is over.
But no post-millennial building program to rebuild Sodom.
Style, serif][/font]καιαπωλεια,plunge into utter destruction 1 Ti 6: 9; ειωαιεισαπωλεια,perish Ac 8: 20; -προςτηρηοιςιδιαναπωλεια,to their own ruin 2 Pt 3: 16; (w. πλανη) 2 Cl 1: 7. Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked: Mt 7: 13; [*][*]ειςαπωλειαυπαγειν,go to destr. Rv 17: 8, 11. (Opp. περιποιησις) Hb 10: 39. (Opp. σωτηρια) Phil 1: 28. ημερακρισεωςκαιαπωλεια (Job 21: 30) τηρηοιςασεβωνανθρωπωνday of judgment and (consequent) destruction of wicked men 2 Pt 3: 7. Hence the end of the wicked is described as απωλεια Phil 3: 19. σκευηοργηςκατηρτισμεναειςαπωλεια, objects of (his) anger, ready for destruction Ro 9: 22 (Is 54: 16). It will come quickly 2 Pt 2:1, is not sleeping vs. 3. Appears as a consequence of death (cf. Job 28, 22): οθανατοςαπωλειαεχειαιωνιον Hs 6, 2, 4; God laughs at it 1 Cl 57: 4 (Pr 1: 26). Those destined to destruction are ωιοιτηςαπωλεια. J 17: 12; AP 1: 2. The anti-christ is also νιοςτηςαπωλεια 2 Th 2: 3. αιρεσεισαπωλειαςheresies that lead to destr. 2 Pt 2: 1; σογματατηςαπωλεια. AP 1: 1. M-M= JH Moulton and G Milligan[*]A Greek-English Lexicon by William Arndt and F Wilbur Gingrich[/list]
it's a good lexicon, but the second and third instances of a word are not the primary definition.
I like my dictionary, it's much more expanded.....
684. ἀπώλεια apó̄leia; gen. apōleías, fem. noun from apóllumi (622), to destroy fully. Used trans. the losing or loss (Matt. 26:8), intrans. perdition, ruin. In the NT, apó̄leia refers to the state after death wherein exclusion from salvation is a realized fact, wherein man, instead of becoming what he might have been, is lost and ruined. Destruction, either temporal (Acts 25:16, death; Sept.: Deut. 4:26; Esth. 7:4; Prov. 6:15; Is. 34:5), or the second death which is eternal exclusion from Christ’s kingdom, equivalent to apothné̄skō (599), to die (Matt. 7:13; Acts 8:20; Rom. 9:22; Phil. 1:28; 3:19; 1[bless and do not curse]Tim. 6:9; Heb. 10:39; 2[bless and do not curse]Pet. 2:1, 3; 3:7, 16; Rev. 17:8, 11). “Heresies of destruction” (a.t.) in 2[bless and do not curse]Pet. 2:1 means fatally destructive heresies. In John 17:12; 2[bless and do not curse]Thess. 2:3, “the son of perdition,” an allusion to the Antichrist, means one determined to remain spiritually lost. See huiós (5207), son. Destruction or waste (Mark 14:4; Sept.: Lev. 6:3, 4). Apó̄leia and the verb apóllumi (622), to destroy, lose, perish, must never be construed as meaning extinction. One dies physically when his spirit and his body separate. Neither the body becomes extinct, nor the spirit. The body decomposes and ceases to exist in the form it was. Its constituent parts, however, continue to exist in a noncohesive form. The spirit takes a new existence, separate from its previous existence joined with the body. The lost sheep which was wandering away from the shepherd and the rest of the flock is called apolōlós (Luke 15:4, 6), also the coin which the woman lost (Luke 15:9, apó̄lesa [the aor. of apóllumi {622}, to lose]) and the prodigal son who was lost (Luke 15:24, 32), but none of them ceased to exist. They simply were lost to the relationship which they had before and which was desired again by the owner.
In 1[bless and do not curse]Tim. 6:9 the words ólethros and apó̄leia occur together referring to those who determine to be rich. In this instance, ólethros refers to the actual physical death of those who desire to be rich by any means such as Judas, Ananias and Sapphira. Apó̄leia, on the other hand, refers to separation from God Himself in fulfillment of our Savior’s warnings that the rich enter the kingdom of heaven with difficulty (Matt. 19:23, 24; Mark 10:25). Ólethros speaks more of the way in which destruction comes than of the state in which a lost person is found. It refers specifically to the destruction of the flesh (1[bless and do not curse]Cor. 5:5). Apó̄leia, on the other hand, refers to the destruction or the perishing of the whole personality as is indicated by the opposite of apóllumi which is só̄zomai (4982), to be saved, “that the spirit may be saved.” Thus we can conclude that for the flesh there is ólethros while for the spirit there is salvation. Yet salvation may be taken as the ant. of both apóllumi and ólethros. In the latter case the word “salvation” must be taken as the healing of the body (James 5:15 where the word translated “saved” is the Gr. word só̄zō [4982], to save). In the spiritual realm, however, só̄zō is also the opposite of apóllumi, to perish. Thus sōtēría (4991), salvation or deliverance, can be taken as the exact opposite of apó̄leia.
from:
Zodhiates, S. (2000, c1992, c1993). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.) (G684). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
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Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST
it's a good lexicon, but the second and third instances of a word are not the primary definition.
Zodhiates, S. (2000, c1992, c1993). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.) (G684). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
Here are a few more....
Ολεθρος (from ολλυμι to destroy); destruction, ruin, death ολιθρια ολιθριος ολιθριως ολικω ολλυμι (from ολισω) to destroy, kill, slaughter; ολλυμαι ολλυω to perish, die, wither, fade
“ὀλλύς” Il.8.472, fem. pl. ὀλλῦσαι ib.449 :—also ὀλλύω, ὀλέκω, fut. ὀλέσω, impf. 3pl. Ὤλλυσαν; LXX, ἀπόλλυμι destroy, make an end of, and of living beings, kill, lose life, die, perish, come to an end, and of living beings, die, esp. a violent death, to have perished, to be dead, undone, ruined, a state of ruin A Greek and English Dictionary of the Septuagint and New Testament, John Groves
Deu 7:2 anathema excommunication; Heb 8:13 vanish away, αφανισμός extermination, destruction, occultation act of disappearing from view Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon
Apollyon - From απο, intensive, and ολλυω, to destroy. The meaning is the same both in the Hebrew and Greek. Commentary on the Bible by Adam Clarke Classical Greek Online: Base Form Dictionary, Aug 11, 2011... <ὄλεθρος> destruction -- [Pokorny] --: 3.156; <ὀλέκω> kill -- [Pokorny] --: 2.133; A Critical Dictionary of Proto-Indo-European with Hurrian Comparative
LXX ὀλέκω destroy verb (used with object) 1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate. 2. to put an end to; extinguish. 3. to kill; slay. 4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate. 5. to defeat completely. Destroy | Define Destroy at Dictionary.com
And here is the definition fromA Greek-English Lexicon by William Arndt and F Wilbur Gingrich ολεθρον destruction, ruin, desolation, annihilation Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked: Mt 7: 13
G3639 Α πωλεια,ας, η,(H.Gk.; inscr., pap., oft. LXX; En.; Test.12 Patr.) destruction. 1. trans., the destruction that one causes, waste (Polyb. 6, Ila, 10 opp. τηρηοις; PTebt. 276, 34) εισ τι η . απωλεια, αυτη τηρηοις μυτου;why this waste Qf the ointment? Mk 14: 4; cf. Mt 26: 8.2. intrans. the destruction that one experiences, annihilation both complete and in process, ruin, (so usu. LXX; Ep. Arist. 167; Philo,Aet. M. 20; 74; Jos., Ant. 15, 62, Vi. 272; Test. Dan 4: 5; but also in Polyb., Plut., Epict. et al. [Ndgeli 35]; therm. Wr. 12, 16; PGM 4, 1247f παραδιδωμι σε εις το μελαν χαος εν τηρηοις απωλειαις Ac 25: 16 t.r.; (w. ολεθρον) βυθιζειν ειςο και απωλεια, plunge into utter destruction1Ti 6: 9; ειωαι εισ απωλεια, perish Ac 8: 20; -προς τηρηοις ιδιαν απωλεια, to their own ruin 2 Pt 3: 16; (w. πλανη) 2 Cl 1: 7. Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked: Mt 7: 13;
εις απωλεια υπαγειν,go to destruction. Rv 17: 8, 11. (Opp. περιποιησις) Hb 10: 39. (Opp. σωτηρια) Phil 1: 28. ημερα κρισεως και απωλεια (Job 21: 30)
τηρηοις ασεβων ανθρωπων day of judgment and (consequent) destruction of wicked men 2 Pt 3: 7. Hence the end of the wicked is described as απωλεια Phil 3: 19. σκευηοργης κατηρτισμενα εις απωλεια, objects of (his) anger, ready for destruction Ro 9: 22 (Is 54: 16). It will come quickly 2 Pt 2:1, is not sleeping vs. 3. Appears as a consequence of death (cf. Job 28, 22): ο θανατος απωλεια εχει αιωνιον Hs 6, 2, 4; God laughs at it 1 Cl 57: 4 (Pr 1: 26). Those destined to destruction are ωιοι της απωλεια. J 17: 12; AP 1: 2. The anti-christ is also νιος της απωλεια 2 Th 2: 3. αιρεσεισ απωλειας heresies that lead to destruction. 2 Pt 2: 1; σογματα της απωλεια. AP 1: 1. M-M= JHMoulton and G Milligan A Greek-English Lexicon by William Arndt and F Wilbur Gingrich
olethros olethros H7703 shadad
θρος ruin, destruction, death ὄλεθρος a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. death, punishment Derivation: from a primary ὄλλυμι (to destroy; KJV Usage: destruction.
Thayer:1) ruin, destroy, death 1a) for the destruction of the flesh, said of the external ills and troubles by which the lusts of the flesh are subdued and destroyed
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words• Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive ὄλεθρος
From ὄλλυμι ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment KJV Usage: destruction. H7703 שׁדד shâdad shaw-dad' by implication to ravage KJV Usage: dead, destroy (-er), oppress, robber, spoil (-er), X utterly, (lay) waste.
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions
שׁדד 1. to deal violently with, despoil, devastate, ruin, destroy, spoil a. (Qal) 1. to violently destroy, devastate, despoil, assail 2. devastator, despoiler (participle) (subst) b. (Niphal) to be utterly ruined c. (Piel) 1. to assault 2. to devastate d. (Pual) to be devastated e. (Poel) to violently destroy f. (Hophal) to be devastated Origin: a primitive root TWOT: 2331 Parts of Speech: Verb Job 15:21 A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him. 1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
...The LAST, in this case, is quoted ...FIRST... 
...GOD is "ABLE" to do ANYTHING... however, just because He is "ABLE", does not mean for a moment, that He shall ever DO... "EVERYTHING" that He is "ABLE" to do. 
...willieH 
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