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6th June 2012, 07:53 PM
|  | New World Order Implementer
    
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Reps: 154,292,412,800,068,320 (power: 154,292,412,800,074) | |  Psychedelics and World Religion
Questions
1. What effect have the various psychedelic plants / substances (soma, haoma, ayahuasca, bhang, teonanacatl, etc..) had on the evolution of religious and spiritual thought?
2. Can psychedelic substances be used to bring about positive life changes?
3. Should freedom of religion include the right of adults to make use of psychedelic sacraments and alter their consciousness according to their will?
4 Where does your religion fall on the general issue of entheogens?
__________________ Substance does not undergo process. Process is primary and what we call substance is merely a temporary pattern produced by that process.
Last edited by Illuminaughty; 6th June 2012 at 08:24 PM.
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6th June 2012, 08:22 PM
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Reps: 594,894,417,076,687,872 (power: 594,894,417,076,696) | | Originally Posted by Illuminaughty  Questions
1. What effect have the various psychedelic plants / substances (soma, haoma, ayahuasca, bhang, teonanacatl, etc..) had on the evolution of religious and spiritual thought?
I understand it wasn't uncommon long ago, but I couldn't elaborate more.
2. Can psychedelic substances be used to bring about positive life changes?
Outside of an immediately induced euphoria, I doubt it.
3. Should freedom of religion include the right for adults to make use of psychedelic sacraments and alter their consciousness according to their will?
If the substance is illegal, then religious people should not be exempt. I strongly discourage it's use even if it wasn't illegal.
4 Where does your religion fall on the general issue of entheogens?
Many might disagree, but I do not use any such substance, and I would not either. I would not attend any group that did, legal or not. I don't consider a spiritual experience induced by mind altering substances to be a true spiritual experience.
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6th June 2012, 08:52 PM
| | New World Order Implementer
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Reps: 154,292,412,800,068,320 (power: 154,292,412,800,074) | | Outside of an immediately induced euphoria, I doubt it.
Can't the experience of euphoria itself be conducive to positive change though? Couldn't some people use a little euphoria now and then to get turned on to a more positive appreciation of life in general. I don't consider a spiritual experience induced by mind altering substances to be a true spiritual experience.
I can respect that. Personally I see all spiritual experiences as the result of brain alteration though. Non drug methods like chanting, fasting, singing hymns, sleep deprivation, meditation, whirling like a dervish, still cause neuro-chemical changes very similar to those brought on by psychedelics. It seems a little arbitrary to say that all the ones which take place while on psychedelic plants are "fake" as opposed to those that take place under other methods.
__________________ Substance does not undergo process. Process is primary and what we call substance is merely a temporary pattern produced by that process.
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6th June 2012, 09:20 PM
|  | Er Victus
 
| | Join Date: 29th June 2010 Location: Northwest US
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Reps: 547,804,536,288,913,920 (power: 547,804,536,288,916) | | | There is a limited knowledge in psychedelic drugs. You may learn some things on the path, but they won't enable you to complete the journey. Also they aren't necessary at all and are hard to control. My advice will sound mundane; but studying theological thought (especially the Bible) will get you further.
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6th June 2012, 09:44 PM
| | New World Order Implementer
| | Join Date: 18th May 2012
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Reps: 154,292,412,800,068,320 (power: 154,292,412,800,074) | | My advice will sound mundane; but studying theological thought (especially the Bible) will get you further.
I've done a fair amount of that. I was a nihilist before my first psychedelic experiences with mushrooms and MDMA but after that I became a connoisseur of religion you could say. I tried everything from Buddhism, Islam, Hermeticism, Hinduism, etc... I probably spent the longest in the Christian mode though reading the Bible and the Christian spirituals.
__________________ Substance does not undergo process. Process is primary and what we call substance is merely a temporary pattern produced by that process.
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6th June 2012, 10:12 PM
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Reps: 594,894,417,076,687,872 (power: 594,894,417,076,696) | | Originally Posted by Illuminaughty Can't the experience of euphoria itself be conducive to positive change though? Couldn't some people use a little euphoria now and then to get turned on to a more positive appreciation of life in general.
I think recreational drugs do more harm than good over the total period of its use. The potential for abuse is too high and the consequences could be catastrophic. I don't the risk is worth it.
Personally I see all spiritual experiences as the result of brain alteration though. Non drug methods like chanting, fasting, singing hymns, sleep deprivation, meditation, whirling like a dervish, still cause neuro-chemical changes very similar to those brought on by psychedelics. It seems a little arbitrary to say that all the ones which take place while on psychedelic plants are "fake" as opposed to those that take place under other methods.
While I meditate, I don't fast, chant, or deprive myself of sleep, etc. I think the effect of psychedelics is exponentially greater than than these, anyway. I see them as an interference to a clear, working mind, which I find very important for practice.
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You know, environmentalists say, "Your car is too big!" but I say, "Your planet is too small!"
-Daffy Duck
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6th June 2012, 10:35 PM
|  | The Avatar Says It All!
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Reps: 2,603,190,969,434,042,368 (power: 2,603,190,969,434,050) | | | While in San Diego, I took a side trip to the desert.
Wandered around and found some peyote buds.
That one experience changed my religious life profoundly.
Not only did it make me appreciate God's creation with more clarity, but it also allowed me to examine my part of it and my personal relationship with Him more easily. There were no walls (self doubts) to contend with.
I have been more spiritually in tune with Him ever since, and this happened in the late '70s.
I do not encourage it for everyone..The trip can be intense, and not everyone can handle it.
That was the only time I did Peyote.
I think that some Native American nations incorporate it into at least one of their religious ceremonies, but don't quote me on that, it is something I heard a while back.
I have been a more spiritual person because of it.
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6th June 2012, 11:01 PM
|  | He who plants a tree, plants a hope
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Reps: 1,144,723,702,856,300,032 (power: 1,144,723,702,856,307) | | Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
1. What effect have the various psychedelic plants / substances (soma, haoma, ayahuasca, bhang, teonanacatl, etc..) had on the evolution of religious and spiritual thought?
I don't know. I've never studied it.
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty 2. Can psychedelic substances be used to bring about positive life changes?
I know absolutely nothing about psychedelics. Never tried them. I have had some craaazy cannabis and that was rather unpleasant for the most part.
LSD has helped people with cluster headaches so I suppose that would be an instance where a psychedelic brought about positive life changes. I'm sure that yes, there are cases where it could but maybe more so in controlled settings?
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty 3. Should freedom of religion include the right of adults to make use of psychedelic sacraments and alter their consciousness according to their will? No. But laws in general could allow for more freedom when it comes to these substances. I don't think religion should play a part in the laws.
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty 4 Where does your religion fall on the general issue of entheogens? I would doubt it's favorable in the case of drugs like as LSD or peyote. I would say marijuana isn't a big deal but I honestly haven't heard anyone discuss this particular topic.  |
6th June 2012, 11:11 PM
| | New World Order Implementer
| | Join Date: 18th May 2012
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Reps: 154,292,412,800,068,320 (power: 154,292,412,800,074) | | That one experience changed my religious life profoundly.
Same thing with me.
I was a troubled youth. Very angry, depressive, and also involved with the white power movement. A scared uptight right wing fanatic. A few entheogenic experiences changed me nearly overnight. On mushrooms and MDMA I gained a sort of empathy with all sentient beings. The change was like night and day and incredibly fast. I couldn't bring myself to hate anyone when I was blissed out. I knew then that my hatred was the result of fear and ignorance. When the fear left the hatred vanished and was replaced with love. Since then I've had a rather happy life and I've come to expand my circle of friends to people of all races, religions, sexual orientations, and so on. I consider it a postiive long term change that was directly related to the use of psychedelics. I know one example doesn't make a rule but I've heard things like this from other people too.
Please note that I'm not giving advice to anyone here just explaining what took place with me.
__________________ Substance does not undergo process. Process is primary and what we call substance is merely a temporary pattern produced by that process.
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6th June 2012, 11:20 PM
|  | Baha'i
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Reps: 33,597,081,020,749,960 (power: 33,597,081,020,764) | | | Illuminaughty:
Questions
1. What effect have the various psychedelic plants / substances (soma, haoma, ayahuasca, bhang, teonanacatl, etc..) had on the evolution of religious and spiritual thought?
My comment:
I'm really unsure about the effect on thought as it may have been more of a stimulant for visionary experiences and it continues in some native religions (such as Peyote) and was likely very widespread in ancient times.
2. Can psychedelic substances be used to bring about positive life changes?
My comment:
Since I was around in the sixties I saw both positive and negative effects..some claimed it enhanced their creativity and some basically were destroyed....
3. Should freedom of religion include the right of adults to make use of psychedelic sacraments and alter their consciousness according to their will?
My comment:
It's usually not just according to "their will" that is, there are strict guidlines and ceremonies involved in native religions so it's not just personal experimentation but usually guided. I think native religions should have protections but not necessarily just for reactional use.
4 Where does your religion fall on the general issue of entheogens?
My comment:
For Baha'is unprescribed drugs are forbidden... If there is a valid medical reason say under supervision of a medical doctor they would likely be permitted. | | |
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