| One Bread, One Body - Catholic A forum open to Christians to discuss various Catholic beliefs and issues. |
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30th May 2012, 02:42 PM
|  | Nothing political is correct.
      
| | Join Date: 5th February 2002 Location: Woods
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Reps: 1,591,383,573,055,171,584 (power: 1,591,383,573,055,247) | |  The authority of the first popes...
Some time ago an acquaintance from my days as a fundamentalist sent me an email. Kevin had become a Baptist pastor and was disappointed that I had been “deceived by the Catholic Church”. He wanted to know my reasons for becoming Catholic. I get such emails from time to time... The authority of the first popes...
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dir="ltr"> “Have a heart that never hardens, and a temper that never tires, and a touch that never hurts.” ~Charles Dickens |
30th May 2012, 04:37 PM
| | Senior Member
 
| | Join Date: 3rd April 2012
Posts: 626
Blessings: 8,765
Reps: 8,359,891,391,741,356 (power: 0) | | | Uhhh . . . yeah - the Early Church was "de-centralized" and there was no visible leader . . .
Ignatius of Antioch
You (the See of Rome) have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus
Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere.
The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth. (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).
Last edited by Elvisman; 30th May 2012 at 06:48 PM.
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30th May 2012, 05:20 PM
|  | Lost in the Cosmos
 
 | | Join Date: 30th November 2010
Posts: 863
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Reps: 129,915,489,316,319,760 (power: 129,915,489,316,322) | | | Authority I buy. However I have yet to be convinced of Papal infallibility. |
30th May 2012, 06:06 PM
| | Senior Member
| | Join Date: 3rd April 2012
Posts: 626
Blessings: 8,765
Reps: 8,359,891,391,741,356 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by truthseeker32  Authority I buy. However I have yet to be convinced of Papal infallibility.
There are THREE main reasons I believe in Papal Infallibility:
1. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-15). Not some truth - not most truth - but ALL truth.
2. The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12, Rom. 12:5). It is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23) and the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15). Since Jesus cannot err, neither can His Body, the Church. Jesus told the apostles that the Church is the Supreme Authority in matters of faith and morals (Matt. 18:15-18) and whatever the Church ordained on earth would be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15, John 20:21-23). Jesus compared the Church with His very SELF (Acts 9:4-5).
Since the Pope is the earthly Shepherd of the Body of Christ, neither he nor the Church can be in error in matters of faith and morals.
3. In the 2000 years of the existence of the Church, the Pope has never declared any erroneous doctrine.
The Church isn't right because I believe it to be so. I believe it because it is right.
Last edited by Elvisman; 30th May 2012 at 06:50 PM.
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30th May 2012, 06:44 PM
|  | Newbie
20  
| | Join Date: 20th May 2012 Location: Chicago
Posts: 320
Blessings: 2,014,699 My Mood 
Reps: 110,016,042,002,814,608 (power: 110,016,042,002,816) | | | Excellent article, I was glad to read it.
I do believe in both the infallibility and authority of the pope. |
30th May 2012, 08:56 PM
|  | St. Peter's R.C. Church, Delhi, NY
58
| | Join Date: 5th March 2003 Location: Central New York
Posts: 2,745
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Reps: 93,995,455,147,824,944 (power: 93,995,455,147,837) | | | Thanks. Well written argument that the Baptists in question will never read.
__________________
Are we to listen to those who would say, "times have changed, we have modern science, we understand things better today, He couldn't really have meant that, abortion and divorce are O.K., that homosexuality is due to DNA and is not a sin"?
Or are we to listen to those who walked with the Lord?
Gal 1:10 Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you." |
31st May 2012, 04:55 AM
| | Lost in the Cosmos
| | Join Date: 30th November 2010
Posts: 863
Blessings: 38,762
Reps: 129,915,489,316,319,760 (power: 129,915,489,316,322) | | Originally Posted by Elvisman There are THREE main reasons I believe in Papal Infallibility:
1. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-15). Not some truth - not most truth - but ALL truth.
2. The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12, Rom. 12:5). It is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23) and the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15). Since Jesus cannot err, neither can His Body, the Church. Jesus told the apostles that the Church is the Supreme Authority in matters of faith and morals (Matt. 18:15-18) and whatever the Church ordained on earth would be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15, John 20:21-23). Jesus compared the Church with His very SELF (Acts 9:4-5).
Since the Pope is the earthly Shepherd of the Body of Christ, neither he nor the Church can be in error in matters of faith and morals.
3. In the 2000 years of the existence of the Church, the Pope has never declared any erroneous doctrine.
The Church isn't right because I believe it to be so. I believe it because it is right.
Cool  Thank you for sharing.  |
31st May 2012, 03:05 PM
|  | Knight
27  
| | Join Date: 11th November 2006 Location: ohio
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Reps: 2,251,233,683,611,494,912 (power: 2,251,233,683,611,525) | | Originally Posted by InfinityandBeyond Excellent article, I was glad to read it.
I do believe in both the infallibility and authority of the pope.
that is great!
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