| Ethics & Morality A forum for the discussion and debate of ethics & morality open to all members. |  | | 
29th May 2012, 08:02 PM
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Reps: 45,201,020,329,779,840 (power: 45,201,020,329,791) | | Originally Posted by Shane Roach I take issue with the idea you cannot be both personable and honest. I see this all the time. We are supposed to lie and say, "That dress looks lovely!" Why? "That dress? It's nice, if you like it, but I prefer (fill in the blank) because of (fill in the blank). Why do you like that dress though?"
You can be unremittingly accurate without being brutally honest.
First not everyone has the ability to do so, and if one does lack the social skills to act in such a manner I would prefer them to be the beneficial liar than the brutally honest outcast.
Secondly, I contest that this is possible in all cases except to the extremely gifted speaker, and that almost everyone will have to make a choice. | 
29th May 2012, 08:05 PM
|  | Legend 45  | | Join Date: 13th March 2002
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Reps: 2,226,886,972,911,809,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by yasic First not everyone has the ability to do so, and if one does lack the social skills to act in such a manner I would prefer them to be the beneficial liar than the brutally honest outcast.
Secondly, I contest that this is possible in all cases except to the extremely gifted speaker, and that almost everyone will have to make a choice.
Mmmm, people with a heart finagle ways of being careful of the feelings of others that don't rely quite as much on verbal skills. It's all in the angle of approach.
But I think I see your point in the sense that, if one felt the need to chose, you prefer the one sort over the other. | 
30th May 2012, 01:42 AM
|  | Knight of the Woeful Countenance (in training) 28  | | Join Date: 19th June 2006 Location: Here and there.
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Reps: 85,940,543,719,044,848 (power: 85,940,543,719,057) | | Originally Posted by yasic First not everyone has the ability to do so, and if one does lack the social skills to act in such a manner I would prefer them to be the beneficial liar than the brutally honest outcast.
Secondly, I contest that this is possible in all cases except to the extremely gifted speaker, and that almost everyone will have to make a choice. Originally Posted by Shane Roach Mmmm, people with a heart finagle ways of being careful of the feelings of others that don't rely quite as much on verbal skills. It's all in the angle of approach.
But I think I see your point in the sense that, if one felt the need to chose, you prefer the one sort over the other.
I think there's going to be a bit of both, for the socially awkward, kind person.
They're going to commit offenses that rely entirely on knowing social protocol-- like, if you didn't know that people in a particular culture (even your own) put a lot of stock in how they look and take personal offense if somebody says they don't like a particular thing about their look, then the question, "Do you like this dress?" seems like a really straightforward opinion poll. "No," might seem like a perfectly acceptable answer, and the person might not realize that there's any need to hedge.
That same person might know exactly what to say, though, if somebody told them that their brother had just died and they're really upset about it.
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30th May 2012, 04:05 AM
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Reps: 51,961,542,198,970,536 (power: 51,961,542,199,005) | | Originally Posted by Paradoxum Should one be honest about ones beliefs/ moral beliefs?
I have problems accepting this as a "should"-issue. Rather, I canīt think of a good reason to be dishonest about them. Is it more beneficial or detrimental (for yourself and society) to be honest about your less agreeable beliefs?
I consider it beneficial when the discourse reflects the spectrum of beliefs held in its entirety. I know I often find myself watering down my moral beliefs and taking on a slightly more acceptable view so that I will be considered more credible and reasonable. Is this acceptable?
If you do it I will have to accept it, no? 
However, I find that a bit short-sighted. Why subject yourself to a judgement that is based on beliefs that arenīt yours?
Aside from all moral/ethical judgement: I personally prefer people to be honest about their beliefs when we communicate. There is hardly anything more powerful when it comes to dealing with persons than their beliefs. Without knowing their beliefs I canīt make sense of their behaviour.
__________________ "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing, and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there."
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Last edited by quatona; 30th May 2012 at 04:12 AM.
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30th May 2012, 10:53 AM
|  | Adoptive father of 3 and adopted son of God. 35  | | Join Date: 30th March 2007 Location: Virgo Supercluster
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Reps: 733,823,841,429,782,784 (power: 733,823,841,429,797) | | | There is a difference between being honest and being forthright. Honesty is always a virtue. Forthrightness is not necessarily so. \
For example, if a person holds incredibly racist views about a particular group, society is better off if that person keeps his views to himself. There is nothing at all dishonest about this, but it may show a lack of forthrightness. However, if asked, "do you believe that [members of said racial group] are more likely to lie and steal than [members of your own race]", I would hope that the person would either answer honestly, even if in doing so he reveals his racist views, or else refuse to answer the question. I would also suggest that the asker of the question has no moral right to be offended even if the answer reveals a viewpoint that the asker believes is offensive.
It is good to abstain from volunteering your potentially offensive views for a few reasons: Voicing an offensive viewpoint simply for the sake of just putting out there risks offending others with no good reason. More importantly, voicing that opinion serves to reinforce it in your own mind; choosing not to voice that opinion often causes a person to reconsider and perhaps even change their opinion.
However, lying about your opinion to protect your reputation causes others to operate on incorrect information. For example, as a criminal defense attorney, when I am representing a client from an ethnic minority group, I need to know if there are any blatant racial biases on the part of jurors that would impede their ability to judge my client based on facts rather than prejudices. So, I will typically ask questions designed to give racists a chance to admit to their racism; I appreciate it deeply when they answer the questions honestly as it makes my job that much easier.
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