answers?

How do you all answer people who say that house church is not real church? Example, my wife and I just started our own house church on Pentecost Sunday. Her mother (who is a minister) said that we should be going to an established church though, for fellowship purposes and what-not. How do you answer that? I mean I know that the church is not a building but the believer and the assembly of the believers. She does have a point though, but seeing how I'm new to the house church/worship scene, just don't know how to answer that quite.

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I am writing to all the Churches and I enjoin all, that I am dying willingly for God's sake, if only you do not prevent it. I beg you, do not do me an untimely kindness. Allow me to be eaten by the beasts, which are my way of reaching to God. — Ignatius, Letter to the Romans

2 Corinthians 5:20, "We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God."

Many gatherings all over the world meet in homes and are in happy fellowship with others of the same understanding. The thought, as I have often stated, is that many assemblies had their beginnings in gatherings in homes (as occured in the early church). They might obtain a building when the gathering grows larger, but if the truth ministered and held is fully scriptural, as Acts 2:41-42 and the Epistles, it does not matter if they are in a home or a building, they will have the blessings of God.

I know of a few such gatherings in NC, and you can read some about such a fellowship worldwide at the site: biblecounsel.homestead. com. Look up always!

Much of what we see in the "Mainline" churches is a product of human traditions.

Tradition isn't bad and we're expected to establish traditions to help us plant, maintain and grow the Church.

But, tradition should never be considered a "must." This is where most people fall short. They forget that we have been given much freedom and that the Scriptures should be our final authority.

As disciples and believers we are all priests. We are told in Scripture that we should continue to "assemble." Where 2 or more are gathered. This can be done by every believer, anywhere. Any believer can baptize, read scripture/preach, conduct Communion etc... etc...

Hope this helps...

Praying for your newly established church. if you would like continual prayers, please PM me and I'll add you to my prayer list.

It's awesome that your being faithful to the leading of the Spirit.

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I have an answer for that... The word for fellowship in the New Testament is koinōnia.. It means "communion by intimate participation." Communion as in togetherness, not Lord's Supper. The Strong's Concordance Definition is:

1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a) the share which one has in anything, participation
b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship

So when you talk about fellowship, it means intimacy shared between believers. I have never been to an institutional church and can say after I left the service I had true fellowship according to that definition. You know why? Form follows structure. So the structure of a building/institution causes the form of those inside of it to change. So if I walk into a building and one person is speaking, the chairs are below them, facing one way.. the form of that meeting takes its shape based on the structure. That's why the structure of institutional churches must be torn down in order to have true fellowship, that which Christ envisioned for the church. It was never about a denomination, or "ordained and paid clergy."

You have a much greater chance of true fellowship in your home gathering. It's intimate, small, and allows for everyone to share the Christ with each other who lives inside the saints. This allows love to flow out of mouths, hearts, and hands to each other. Christ said all men will know we are his disciples for the love one for another. A true organic church allows for that love to flow and be expressed through each member.

Study what the early church did in the New Testament, and see if institutional churches come seven close to doing 5% of it... They don't.

On a side note, people misinterpret "pastor" as a title and position in the church and say "look, it's right here in the Bible!". The early churches had no pastor over them. They had Paul, who planted a church, stayed for a few months, then left them on their own. It is Christ who became the head of those churches, not a man or pastor.

Pastor is a function. It means shepherding. So the term pastor was never even used singularly in the NT. It was plural. They had "pastors" or "shepherders" that helps others in the church. They did not speak every meeting, while others remain mute and silent. They did not hear the Lord of behalf of the people, for each one had Christ inside and were led as one body together. They did not solely teach others, as Christ was their teacher, and they needed none because they had His spirit.

Their faith was also not based on written words on a page. Only 5% of people could read. Gentiles did not have access to Holy Scriptures. The NT was not canonized yet. What was their faith based on? The living Christ that was inside each of them, supplying rivers of life by His Spirit.

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Seeking to see Jesus the head of his church, so the Father will be all in all!

I would challenge their foolish thinking.
And take the praise of GOD over the praise of man.
Give JESUS is Bride, Give JESUS HIS Church back!

You can have fellowship anywhere and you don't need a covering.
JESUS is WAY good enough to teach and cover HIS flock.

Keep standing in faith, you are on the right track actually the only way!

-eric
The Exchanged Life

Essentially, where "two or more are gathered" in His name is church. The Lord intentionally boiled His definition of church down to a minimum plurality, because He has imparted to us a spirit of freedom and power. I have seen more done in informal settings than in some very formal gatherings.

It also is possible to have a variety of experiences. Your group could interact with other local/regional house churches, or it could visit larger churches with more developed sermons on occasion. But I wouldn't take her admonitions legalistically.

"two or more are gathered" was not the prescription for a church. You have to take that in context. It was about reconciliation. It talked about how the Lord would be present and assisting a brother talking to another about some problem with sin. Read it in context, just a pet peeve of mine, not sounding critical.

However, when you talk about sermon and house church, it turns my stomach. A sermon as we know it was birthed from catholic roots. God never intended His church to comprise of sermonized meetings, where one speaks, and all sit mute. The church was comprised of believers expressing Christ inside them through their mouths, ALL of them. Also through their hands and hearts. A church was never an event or place to go to. It was the living, visible body of Christ. What we call now with church, a sermon, pews, etc is not the vision God has for the church.

Question:

So, if two or more are gathered in JESUS for some other reason, then what?
Is JESUS not present?
Or is that not the Church? It is something else?

Silly...

Don't allow any small gathering of people that are sharing JESUS together peeve you - you are made for greater things than that!

Encourage and Build Up - like you've done before.

-eric

The Exchanged Life

I think you've misunderstood my point. I was not meaning to be degrading about the misquoted verse, not using that to say just 2 or 3 people isn't enough for Christ to be present, nor bashing those who meet that may just have two or three people. The issue runs much deeper than that.

But I do thank you for encouraging me to build up. My statements were not meant to tear down, only shed light on something dangerous I see happen all the time.. people living out their faith and walk with Christ, using misquoted "rules" they've sewn together from traditions of men and misquoted out of context Scriptures. In fact, I started a new thread that I hope this community will collaborate with me on:

christianforums.com/t7662956

BTW, I think if you have just 2 people, meet with your Lord. If it's just you meet with your Lord. If it's 10 meet with your Lord! For the record, just clarifying. :-)

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Seeking to see Jesus the head of his church, so the Father will be all in all!