All OCD themes have two sides. If they didn't then there wouldn't be anything to fight against or battle over. But it's the battle that feeds the OCD. Quit fighting and the OCD will eventually quit punching you back. Keep fighting and the battle can rage on for years and years... as you already know.
Mitzi
Originally Posted by raven1
I have two parts one says God existing isn't logical ( that he created matter out of nothing, Jesus walked on water etc) and another that says but I can't know he doesn't. I am in the stage between agnostism and Christianity. I never asked to be here but this is where I am and I have been told I can't be saved unless I trust he is there. How when the agnostic part doesn't even want to because it thinks it is unrational but I don't want to be wrong and go to hell if it exists either. I can push the agnostic side away and fight for God but it is all a lie because the agnostic part says no I am more rational. This is my fault because I want to hang on to the agnostic side but it isn't because I didn't ask for an agnostic side.
Raven definitely wants to go to heaven and be with God but her OCD is so bad right now that it's running the show. If Raven didn't want to be a Christian very badly then her OCD couldn't even pick this as a theme.
In my opinion, (take it or leave it), the only way Satan is playing a role in all of this is the same exact way he plays a role in any affliction as in the case of Job or in the case of Paul. OCD is not a unique instance of spiritual warfare in comparision to any other valid disorder and affliction. And just as in any other afflicition God's grace is sufficient for us. His strength is perfected in our weakness. Raven needs to completely address this problem within the context of treating it as OCD by using the proven methods and strategies for managing the disorder. When she gets sidetracked into compulsive reassurance seeking on these forums she is feeding the disorder and sadly this counterproductive to her recovery process.
We need to pray fervently for her that she will begin to trust the recommendations of her therapist and do the things that will help her to get better. She definitely needs the Lord to bolster her and give her courage in order to do this.
Best counsel you gave to her in this post was "just ignore those thoughts". I completly agree with you there.
Mitzi
Originally Posted by Jesusisgood
Father please rebuke satan away from my sister in Jesus name. YOU have to make the choice, God IS real but you have to decide if you want to go to heaven or not. Being a Christian is a choice and satan will try to take you away any way he can, but you have to just ignore those thoughts and tell God you will believe in Him anyway. " faith is the substance of things hoped for, The EVIDENCE of things not seen" - Hebrews 11:1. You cant let this go on, i know you are genuenlly concerned but the more you let go and trust God to be real, the more you can rest in Him.
Dont worry so much about it, the more you give into it the more you'll believe these thoughts. Even if it is a spiritual thing, the best thing to do is allow God to give you rest and just believe in Him. I know cause i had something with my ocd that didnt get better until i trusted God. Im going through an ocd attack right now but the more i dont think about it and draw closer to God (and trust He is there) I feel alot better. Praying for you tonight sister Your never alone and think about it this way, what do you have to lose if you do believe in God, nothing.
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See that's just it though. I can't just believe in God the pastor says I can choose to believe in God too. How in the world is that possible when your heart and mind says I doubt he is and you don't want him is isn't real be rational. Sure I can believe but if it isn't logical to me or in my heart it's a lie.
None of us really feel like we know what's in our heart when OCD is super bad. And the whole "how can I know?" ? is the thing OCD just hates. It's always dangling this carrot just out of reach; if you just ask this one more question you might get the answer that lays it all to rest. But that's a lie of OCD. It's just a way to keep us ruminating... endlessly.
Mitzi
Originally Posted by raven1
i don't know what's in my heart because of this. if this is really ocd or a spiritual matter. how can i know?
It only seems illogical and like your heart doesn't believe cause that's the obsession. All OCD obsessions are like this. They all seem real, valid, scary and Oh so threatening. Believe it or not you are actually letting yoru emotions rule the day here. As if our salvation depended on the fickleness of our emotional state. Good grief if that were the case we'd all be doomed.
Mitzi
Originally Posted by raven1
See that's just it though. I can't just believe in God the pastor says I can choose to believe in God too. How in the world is that possible when your heart and mind says I doubt he is and you don't want him is isn't real be rational. Sure I can believe but if it isn't logical to me or in my heart it's a lie.
But nobody can explain to me why it's not agnostism and only OCD. Everything isn't always black and white. There are lays exceptions to the rule. In every disorder people are people and it will be different for them meaning I could have OCD and be agnostic as well.
OK Raven,
So to treat the fear of that possibility by saying; "oh well, I guess there's no way for me to get any certainty one way or the other about this, so I'm just gonna quit trying. Trying has only made me continually miserable so I'm done with all that." Then - demonstrate what real faith is by choosing which path you'll walk. We always choose to follow the path that we have faith in. We'll walk on it even if we're not sure or feel comfortable that we made the right choice. Are you doing that? And it's in the walking - ie. doing our best to follow and obey Christ's commands and examples in allegiance and loyalty to Him - that the legs of our faith get stronger. Emotional validation (I feel saved) isn't proof of faith so let go of needing it. Just walk!
Jesus: "If you love me keep my commandments. How blessed are those who hear the Word of the Lord and obey it." And why would we bother to obey Him or follow Him if we had no belief in Him? Even if our following Him is borne out of our fear of being cut off from Him or condemned to Hell the following still demonstrates the presence and action of faith in our lives. OCD cannot rob any one of us of this choice. It can only rob us of emotional reassurance. So what? It feels awful but it doesn't rule our will. After all: "Twas grace that taught my heart to fear" means that I'm well aware that I need a Savior to rescue me from myself and from all the evil that has infected this creation... "I'm afraid... help me!" Then: "and grace my fears relieved" means that God has made a way to save me that has nothing to do with what I feel, or think, or do but everthing to do with who He is. So we cry out :"Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy on me A SINNER!" and He says... THIS justifies us before God. It is indeed "grace alone" that saves us. Our faith is not based in who we are but in all that He is. Raven... you need to "get over yourself" just as I did.
Mitzi
Originally Posted by raven1
But nobody can explain to me why it's not agnostism and only OCD. Everything isn't always black and white. There are lays exceptions to the rule. In every disorder people are people and it will be different for them meaning I could have OCD and be agnostic as well.
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