The inherent problems with small churches.

I don't think this topic has ever been brought up here:

-- NOTE-- I'm NOT addressing ether new church that is in their first few years of existence, but those that are typically less than 100 and have been that way for years and sometimes decades.

If a church is not growing, you would have to ask why?

I've personally found that these micro churches have some commonality between them.

1. There is little to no outreach into their community. On purpose planning for reaching the lost is vague at best.

2. There is little to no missions activity. Either financially supporting a missionary or sending teams. Sending teams to the missions field in a foreign and almost impossible event.

3. A very very small leadership team that consists of either a pastor, lording over his flock, controlling everything - or two or three individuals who control every aspect of the church.

4. There is no continuing education program that includes people going outside their church to be educated.

5. The pastor, while being in the pulpit for years has no real formal training and has spent his career forming his own unique theological positions based on what he has read somewhere.

6. The church is stuck in a box - either under so many rules they render themselves helpless or so loose there are no absolutes.

7. Question anything they do and the response is immediate and volitile.

Again these are my observations.

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I heard a preacher say they are like a train without wheels.

Lots of smoke and noise, but going nowhere fast.

__________________
Pragmatism is the exact opposite of faith. Pragmatism says, "If it works, I'll accept and believe it." Faith says, "What I accept and believe is based entirely upon God's written Word, the Bible."


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I see those same problems in large churches.

I believe I saw data that showed no difference in missionary funding between large and small churches.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims?


peace,
Simon

Originally Posted by Simon Peter

I see those same problems in large churches.

I believe I saw data that showed no difference in missionary funding between large and small churches.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims?


peace,
Simon

I believe I saw a UFO.

You mean besides the last 25 years of ministry?

Our church gave close to 1,000,000 to missions in 2011. How does a church of 80 do that?

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Yea, who would want to go to a church where you could actually have a personal relationship with your pastor anyway.

I'm sorry you had those experiences with small churches, with the exception of one, I've found them to be the best places to go.

Originally Posted by Simply Put

I believe I saw a UFO.

You mean besides the last 25 years of ministry?

Our church gave close to 1,000,000 to missions in 2011. How does a church of 80 do that?

First of all, I'm not the one who's making the claims. You are. So SP, you should be the one backing up those claims.
You have the responsibility to back up your claims. It works that way in every culture and sphere of life. Sorry.

As for your church giving $1,000,000 in 2011.
If your church is 1,000 people that's $1,000 each.
If a church of 80 gives $100,000 the small church is better at giving.



peace,
Simon

Originally Posted by Faulty

Yea, who would want to go to a church where you could actually have a personal relationship with your pastor anyway.

I'm sorry you had those experiences with small churches, with the exception of one, I've found them to be the best places to go.

There is our difference. I'm not after a personal relationship with my pastor. It's nice to have, but not on my lists of needed things.

__________________
Pragmatism is the exact opposite of faith. Pragmatism says, "If it works, I'll accept and believe it." Faith says, "What I accept and believe is based entirely upon God's written Word, the Bible."


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Originally Posted by Simon Peter

First of all, I'm not the one who's making the claims. You are. So SP, you should be the one backing up those claims.
You have the responsibility to back up your claims. It works that way in every culture and sphere of life. Sorry.

As for your church giving $1,000,000 in 2011.
If your church is 1,000 people that's $1,000 each.
If a church of 80 gives $100,000 the small church is better at giving.



peace,
Simon

Or, if you had a church of 20 and they gave 1,000,000,000,000.00
That would even be better.

Reality is that most churches go 100 or less don't have a total budget past 100,000.00

Quote: The typical operating budget of Protestant churches for the past year was $115,000. That is about $5,000 higher than the previous year, and represents a rise that slightly exceeds the increase attributable to cost-of-living jump. The figures exclude funds donated to special funds, such as building campaigns.

The churches that have the largest operating budgets were those in the South (median: $130,000), while the smallest budgets were found among churches in the Midwest ($96,000). On a per capita basis, churches in the West received the highest amount of funding, while churches in the Midwest garnered the smallest per capita giving.

Found here: The Barna Group - Pastors Paid Better, But Attendance Unchanged


Oh, and btw, if you look at the last sentence of the OP, these are my observations..

edited after some further thinking and prayer.

I grew up in a small church that had a small building. It was one of 3 "sister churches" of the AME denomination in Minneapolis. It had a very intimate feeling and a group worshiped there that had more southern roots and prefered a more intimate setting. THere was the ability for candlight vigil and preaching without even a microphone if need be. The choir and piano and organ were the only instruments when I was young. It was a sense of a real family and I mean family not just saying it because we go to church together. Every single person in there new each other. Where we lived our kids. We babysat for each other visit each other when we were sick and the Reverend knew every member of the flock and everyone's situations intimatly. He was able to provide spiritual guidance and councel for people as youth, adults, couples, in hospice, etc, along with his wife. I never had a feeling of such a family that was almost indistinguishable from my own blood relatives and I've never found a place just like it since. Some people did think it was too small or didn't like this or that and would go to one of the sister churches. SOmetimes someone from one of the sister churches would come over to our church for an event or something and feel that family presence and want to be a part of it.

THe outreach we did was in our daily lives by living the Gospel. People would ask where I got my good attitude from and I would tell them aout my church and we would get visitors. One reason they don't grow fast is it is a very intimate atmosphere in there. THere is no hiding and sliding in and out, Somebody is going to ask you how you are who you are and will we see you next week? People don't like that kind of spotlight on them. They like to be anonymous on church. Go in get a word and go on about my day. It is overwhelming to have 10-15 people come up and introduce themselves to you so they get scared and don't come back.

Some people have been missing that family feeling and welcome their whole lives so those are the ones that stay. They keep coming back and they keep the little church running.

You can dog them all you want to but I'll take my family over a auditorium of strangers and their money any
day.


EDIT: I want to add that if this is against the charismatic/spirit filled way, I will happily retract my entire statement. Just let me know please. I do not wish to pose any argument against any charismatic doctrine, belief, or custom. I am Methodist but I would like to consider myself Spirit filled though not technically "charismatic"

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28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”