Fake Christians in the United States.

WilliamB · #31 25th May 2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by thesunisout

You have a very unbiblical definition of sin:

1 John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Love does not lead to a violation of Hs commands

Sin is breaking Gods commands. It is also any kind of unrighteousness, as well as not doing what you know to be right.

You say we should love God, and I agree. What does God consider to be love?:

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him

Love does not lead to a violation of any of Gods commands. Thus, operating in love leads one to keep by default, all His commands.

We are no longer under the law of the torah, we are under the law of Christ. We are commanded to live sanctified lives, to be holy as He is holy. No, we can't do it on our own, which is why He sent us His Holy Spirit. Will we ever be perfect? Not until Christ returns. That doesn't mean you have any excuse for sin. or that you can throw up your hands and invent some arbitrary definition for sin and expect to coast in on Gods grace.

We are commanded to love God and love one another.

WilliamB · #32 25th May 2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by jdale72

One man has saved the world.

Bingo!

JHM · #33 25th May 2012, 09:19 PM

@ Mock : If you would like to see my take on what you have talked about, say so, and I will PM you the whole of it in stages.

Be it noted that there is a part of Revelation which it says takes a clever mind to understand.

You might also take a look at this : http://www.christianforums.com/t7640217/
Mine is the second poem in that thread.

jdale72 · #34 25th May 2012, 11:20 PM

Foghorn: I agree man can't rip tares from wheat, being cynical with scripture will probably lump me in with the fakies. But in all seriousness a honest christian will see that he's a field full with both tares and wheat. Only Jesus can removes the tares, but it's when we begin to say this man is good and this one is bad or this one is wheat and this one is a tare we become unaware of the log in our eye. To be honest only Jesus is a real christian, making Him the wheat and us the tares and if He were to remove the tares from the wheat we would be dead just like we were before He came into our life. Anything good in us, by us, and through us is Jesus Christ. So if we find any lacking Jesus has shown up to his threshing floor with His fan and fire yet.

watchman333 · #35 25th May 2012, 11:21 PM

O.K. Mock, let me try this another way. The reason I mentioned judging is because I thought I was detecting an underlying bitterness in your soul against the hypocrates at your church. Now, if this is only good Biblical "spiritual discernment", against the bad guys, there is nothing wrong with that. I would only say that if the Holy Spirit moves you to witness against people or things that are troubling you, then by all means, follow the Spirit. Matthew 15 has some interesting passages where the Lord's disciples told the Lord He may have offended the Pharisees. The Lord told them, Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. We are not going to help everyone Mock, help who you are led to help. Bless the LORD.

Kensington7 · #36 26th May 2012, 12:23 AM

"There are hypocrites in the church"... Well, come on over, there is always room for one more!

I'm glad you said only 65% of the body was askew. Whew! I thought for a minute there you were sinking us all.

Yep... it's that whole "Boulder vs Speck" thing.

Kensington7 · #37 26th May 2012, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bridgit

God has given us the task of reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. So we are Christ's ambassadors. (1 cor. 5: 19-20)

Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won't need to compare yourself to anyone else. For we are each responsible for our own conduct. (Galatians 6:4-5)

When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings. (1 cor. 9: 22-23)

Therefore I, a prisoner for serving the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling for you have been called by God. Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other's faults because of my love. (Eph. 4: 1-2)

... Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them. (Eph. 4:29)

Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. (Gal. 6:1)

So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up. (Rom. 14:19)

.......

Love this. Sound doctrine indeed.

Mock · #38 26th May 2012, 01:19 AM

Jdale, I cannot solve problems only God can I am nothing but just a man a worthless being everything I do and hope to do is worked with the power of God. Everything is God, I just hope he works through me. If I sounded like I was bashing? I apologize. When you see a stain on a shirt don't you usually spot it out. I am just pointing out the diamond in the ruff. I do not have the answers and quiet frankly I never said I did. I never said anything in my post that we should do this and that. I guess you could say I am as confused as heck that's why I let God make the shots, but I was mostly concerning the fake Christianity. I do not hold bitterness towards people at all. I like many people who go to church even knowing they are not truly living for Christ. Also I disagree william with the whole thing "Whatever you do in life love God" not that I am saying do not love God but I want God to tell me what to do. This life is not about doing what we want. I realize we can persure things and God will alllow use and encourage us but hes doing it for a purpose so we can work in some way to leading people to the lord or showing how righteously in God. Many people say well all you have to do to the church is live and look righteously. Now days everyone thinks they are doing that. I am not being a hypocritical when it's the absolute truth. I can't speak for every human or church as I said, but we can easily see or be shown by God that many are in the wrong here. Also it's kind of hard to tell people there faults when they are living a lie of this christian life. How am I suppose to rearrange someone's thinking. "Hey well everything you do is fake and a lie" I do not have the answers, I am not perfect and I struggle with understanding alot of this stuff myself. America is so evil it's like Lot's situation, Although he did not sin he was use to Sadam and Golormor he knew it was wicked but he himself became use to it and even accepted it without even knowing. Even when he was taking out of the city he still wanted to go back and asked why?

America has brainwashed us.

Mock · #39 26th May 2012, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by jdale72

Finding fault is the easy part of solving a problem. And if that's where you stop in the process of solving a problem you become apart of the problem making it worse than if you never got involved. Real christians or love doesn't look out for itself, doesn't have to be right, and continually gives its self to others. If you can't help solve a problem maybe you really can't see the problem. If I were to look at my son and say to myself look at him, he thinks he's a real man. He puts on shaving cream and acts like he has something to shave, ha look at that attempt at putting on a tie, he can't even make soup right. What a fake, I can't stand being around this crap I'm going to find another one whose more of a real man. SHAME ON ME! If I don't have enough of what's real to give to him I don't deserve him and he doesn't need me.

Honestly I do not see how this son references makes sense, no offense. Your comparing a human being growing who has not developed into a man to Christians who are not truly following Jesus. How about an example like. You have son he's suppose to be a man but he's trying to be a dolphin, or a woman, or a dog, or his best friend frank. "Being fake is being something your not" "Making soup incorrectly is failing and maybe no touch for food". I am horrible cook that's why I let God do the cooking, I just sit around a stir the pot with tools he gives me and seasonings he let's out on the tasty batch of tomato soup. :]. Also God will never abandon us but we have run away from home and tried making our own little place Carve Board box place* Apparently big ones now*, he's been waiting for us to come back home. It's more like your son saying at 16 years old "Hey I like these rules and this nice house and the clothes and nutriment yall provide but today I kind of don't wanna abide by your rules kind of wanna just party today but tomorrow Yaknow Ill be back on track but today eeh not so much" or *You have these rules and love for your child but what if is he is secretly breaking them some days behind your back and disrespectful towards you behind your back but* an example of deception would be *A man is fishing and he thinks fishing is sitting on a boat going out to sea and just turning around coming back and hes taught this but the problem is he comes back with no fish and is living this lie of what fishing really is but he is truly believing this is fishing.

WilliamB · #40 26th May 2012, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mock

Jdale, I cannot solve problems only God can I am nothing but just a man a worthless being everything I do and hope to do is worked with the power of God. Everything is God, I just hope he works through me. If I sounded like I was bashing? I apologize. When you see a stain on a shirt don't you usually spot it out. I am just pointing out the diamond in the ruff. I do not have the answers and quiet frankly I never said I did. I never said anything in my post that we should do this and that. I guess you could say I am as confused as heck that's why I let God make the shots, but I was mostly concerning the fake Christianity. I do not hold bitterness towards people at all. I like many people who go to church even knowing they are not truly living for Christ. Also I disagree william with the whole thing "Whatever you do in life love God" not that I am saying do not love God but I want God to tell me what to do. This life is not about doing what we want. I realize we can persure things and God will alllow use and encourage us but hes doing it for a purpose so we can work in some way to leading people to the lord or showing how righteously in God. Many people say well all you have to do to the church is live and look righteously. Now days everyone thinks they are doing that. I am not being a hypocritical when it's the absolute truth. I can't speak for every human or church as I said, but we can easily see or be shown by God that many are in the wrong here. Also it's kind of hard to tell people there faults when they are living a lie of this christian life. How am I suppose to rearrange someone's thinking. "Hey well everything you do is fake and a lie" I do not have the answers, I am not perfect and I struggle with understanding alot of this stuff myself. America is so evil it's like Lot's situation, Although he did not sin he was use to Sadam and Golormor he knew it was wicked but he himself became use to it and even accepted it without even knowing. Even when he was taking out of the city he still wanted to go back and asked why?

America has brainwashed us.

Believe it or not, we actually agree on more of this stuff than you might think. Seems we may just have opposing views on what's really the heart of the "Sodom and Gomorrah" state of America and its churches. Our churches, thus our country is rank with hypocrisy. But it's the lack of love for one another that manifests sin. The coveting, the greed, the hatred, the adultery, the lying, the selfishness and the list goes on and on. Whereever you find these things there is a lack of love because love does not manifest sin. It's impossible for love to manifest sin! It's not about looking righteous as the pharasees did, it's about living righteously through love. It's about letting the light of God shine through us by the love the Holy Spirit gives.

Now I've told you twice already and you reject Christs commands as the solution to these problems. You brush them aside like, "yeah of course we have to love but, that's not it.". Yes, that is it! In whatever ever it is that God has called you to do. The body of Christ is like a huge jigsaw puzzle. Together, we make a beautiful mosaic. But separately, we are just individuals pieces with different colors and shapes. No two are alike. What's good for your life, may not be good for the next. We are all different and all have our own personal relationships with God. We each serve our own unique functions and purpose in the completed mosaic. The only thing we must find commonality in, is our love for God and our love for one another. It's the only thing we can find commonalitly in, so it's a good thing that love covers all.

I pray that God will enlighten you with that Truth because I can tell that your passions are sincere. But if everything you are and everything you do, is not rooted in love, you might as well throw the bible away because nothing else in there is going to help you. It's only going to lead you to a legalistic mindstate, completely devoid of love, just like the Pharasees of Jesus' day and the "kin" of the Pharasess who run many American churches today. In the end, all your passions will be for nothing because you'll only succeed in pushing more people away from God, instead of letting His light, His love, draw people closer to Him, through you.