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10th June 2012, 09:45 PM
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Reps: 1,132,863,471,784,424 (power: 1,132,863,471,786) | | Originally Posted by Norman321  Google is your friend. I am not here to spoon feed people. How difficult is it to type "Middle East Biodiversity" into a google search? I try to give you all key words to make a google search easy. I want people to be able to verify everything I say.
People on here spoon feed you constantly. Now get to searching. |
10th June 2012, 09:57 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,857,442) | | Originally Posted by Norman321 no, I do not remember, what were you shopping for?
QV please: Originally Posted by AV1611VET You guys are like the proverbial kid being pushed through the aisle in a shopping cart by his mother, whining, "I want this! I want that!" And the mother says, "No", and then... well ... then the whine-vent-ridicule triad starts.
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11th June 2012, 01:06 AM
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Reps: 1,132,863,471,784,424 (power: 1,132,863,471,786) | | Originally Posted by Norman321 Yep, thats pretty much it. I will be the first to admit that I wish God spoiled us and did it all for us. But that is not reality. He expects us to put a little bit of effort into seeking after Him. We can not do for others what they should be doing for themselves.
Says the guy who needed someone else to pull 86,100 articles on the Cambrian Explosion for him. |
11th June 2012, 01:43 PM
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Reps: 9,803,746,899,927,004 (power: 9,803,746,899,929) | | Originally Posted by Michael Apparently you missed my point ENTIRELY. Someone (can't recall off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to look at the moment) asked how much a "soul weighted". My point in asking how much a graviton weighed was to point out that some theoretical particles do not HAVE a proposed weight. I think I mentioned the photon as well. You're the one that went all ballistic. 
Weight does NOT equal mass. The point in asking how much a graviton weighs is that it is a silly question that doesn't even serve to make the point you were trying to make.
If you were trying to make that point, you should have said "what is the mass of a graviton?". I think you're confusing weight and mass, a common confusion made by those with little actual study of more advanced physics under their belt; or if not confusing, not caring enough to make the distinction or be correct. Originally Posted by Michael Likewise nobody says soul MUST exist, the concept simply jives with NDE's and even some reported past life memories. Whatever the field might be made of, it need not have any rest mass as we understand it, anymore than a photon has rest mass. Rest mass isn't even a requirement for something to be "real"!
So you're saying it's ok to suggest soul particles as a concept because "they jive" with anecdotal evidence alone, yet to suggest gravitons as a concept is tantamount to "religion" or "mythology", because they fit a mathematic model quite well that in many other respects describes the natural world exactly as we see it?
Maybe we should find some more anecdotal evidence to try and convince you when next a cosmological principle arises on these forums, because it seems to be something you treasure.
Quantum field theory, of which the graviton is merely a logical extension, has a great deal of empirical support. Three of the four forces seem to be tied inextricably each to an elementary particle, so why is it "mythology" and a "religion" to suppose that the fourth might be, also?
It's only because gravitons are so catastrophically beyond measurement in even their best case postulated form (although - let's be crystal clear - not prohibited from measurement and still entirely testable, just way beyond anything we can currently build) - that the experiments are primarily designed to infer their presence and properties, and rule out other possibilities (via gravitational waves).  |
11th June 2012, 04:42 PM
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Reps: 33,303,535,996,878,988 (power: 33,303,535,996,901) | | Originally Posted by mkatzwork Weight does NOT equal mass. The point in asking how much a graviton weighs is that it is a silly question that doesn't even serve to make the point you were trying to make.
Whatever. I seems like a silly and unrelated issue at this point. If you were trying to make that point, you should have said "what is the mass of a graviton?". I think you're confusing weight and mass, a common confusion made by those with little actual study of more advanced physics under their belt; or if not confusing, not caring enough to make the distinction or be correct.
Or it was just sloppy verbiage which you decided to build a federal case over.  So you're saying it's ok to suggest soul particles as a concept because "they jive" with anecdotal evidence alone, yet to suggest gravitons as a concept is tantamount to "religion" or "mythology", because they fit a mathematic model quite well that in many other respects describes the natural world exactly as we see it?
Let me back up here and point out that I don't really take issue over QM concepts. Granted, some of the proposed particles and concepts aren't easily "testable" at the moment, but it's not like they wouldn't exist here on Earth were we to have the technology to test such ideas at the moment. More importantly these ideas (as you noted) came from rigorous empirical testing here on Earth. It's not exactly something I'd call a "religion", but I would say it includes an element of "faith" in the unseen, in the lab.
Compare and contrast that with the now dead inflation sky deity. Maybe we should find some more anecdotal evidence to try and convince you when next a cosmological principle arises on these forums, because it seems to be something you treasure.
Ya know....Had Guth really had some sort of scientific precedent, some principle or field that had some sort of "history" prior the one man, his ideas wouldn't actually seem so "contrived". It's the fact that inflation theory came from one single human imagination that makes it somewhat hard to see as anything other than a "religious icon" of sorts. Guth's sky icon just included some math, and ideas that ultimately were falsified. None the less, the "icon without precedent" somehow managed to live beyond a single falsification. That's when it finally morphed it dozens of metaphysical 'religions". Quantum field theory, of which the graviton is merely a logical extension, has a great deal of empirical support.
Indeed. Many of QM's ideas are testable here on Earth, right now. Three of the four forces seem to be tied inextricably each to an elementary particle, so why is it "mythology" and a "religion" to suppose that the fourth might be, also?
It's not a religion, but it's still an act of "faith" on the part of the "believer" in the unseen (in the lab). It's only because gravitons are so catastrophically beyond measurement in even their best case postulated form (although - let's be crystal clear - not prohibited from measurement and still entirely testable, just way beyond anything we can currently build) - that the experiments are primarily designed to infer their presence and properties, and rule out other possibilities (via gravitational waves).
It's the concept of POTENTIAL empirical support that keeps me from suggesting that gravitons are a "religion". Unlike the now dead inflation sky entity, the parts of QM we cannot yet test on Earth, may yet one day be TESTABLE here on Earth. I suppose that's the only empirical difference between a simple act of faith in the unseen, and a full blown "religion' that will necessarily and forever be an act of faith (like inflation).
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Last edited by Michael; 11th June 2012 at 04:49 PM.
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17th June 2012, 08:11 AM
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Reps: 660,242,651,141,856,640 (power: 660,242,651,141,872) | | why the soul is eternal and why hell must be as well
The soul is software not hardware. And if it is software it has no mass....
the weight of an empty floppy disk is .8 ounce. But a completely full one is still .8 ounce. Software has no mass, but controls the way the machine operates.
The mass of the floppy disk is .8 ounce, and will remain .8 ounce regardless of whether its individual magnetic particles are charged in a positive or negative manner. It's the pattern of neg (0) and pos (1) polarity of the existing particles already on the disk that make up what we call "software", not whether the disk is empty (which it is not) or full (also, which it is not)
the soul is just the software of the human body...it's information in the neurons
all non-material entities (e.g. information,
consciousness, intelligence and will) are massless and thus
have zero weight. Information is always based on an idea;
it is thus also massless and does not arise from physical
or chemical processes.
secondly,
time is the fourth dimension (a physical property)
time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity. For a person travelling at 99% the speed of light, Time slows for them by a factor of 7 If they were to travel to a star 7 light years away, at 99% speed of light, it would take them 1 year, but to an observer on Earth it would have seemed like 7 years.
Time needs mass to operate, because time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity.
so since the soul has no mass, the soul is outside of time (space time=space or volume/mass + time)
By default the soul HAS to be eternal.
Hell must be eternal as well.
Last edited by gradyll; 17th June 2012 at 08:17 AM.
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17th June 2012, 09:08 AM
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Reps: 600,247,018,091,406,848 (power: 600,247,018,091,414) | | Originally Posted by gradyll why the soul is eternal and why hell must be as well
The soul is software not hardware. And if it is software it has no mass....
the weight of an empty floppy disk is .8 ounce. But a completely full one is still .8 ounce. Software has no mass, but controls the way the machine operates.
The mass of the floppy disk is .8 ounce, and will remain .8 ounce regardless of whether its individual magnetic particles are charged in a positive or negative manner. It's the pattern of neg (0) and pos (1) polarity of the existing particles already on the disk that make up what we call "software", not whether the disk is empty (which it is not) or full (also, which it is not)
the soul is just the software of the human body...it's information in the neurons
all non-material entities (e.g. information,
consciousness, intelligence and will) are massless and thus
have zero weight. Information is always based on an idea;
it is thus also massless and does not arise from physical
or chemical processes.
secondly,
time is the fourth dimension (a physical property)
time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity. For a person travelling at 99% the speed of light, Time slows for them by a factor of 7 If they were to travel to a star 7 light years away, at 99% speed of light, it would take them 1 year, but to an observer on Earth it would have seemed like 7 years.
Time needs mass to operate, because time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity.
so since the soul has no mass, the soul is outside of time (space time=space or volume/mass + time)
By default the soul HAS to be eternal.
 So how is a fertilized human egg any different to a lizard, chimp, severely mentally h@ndicapped human, etc. ad infinitum? Don't they all have this massless software so that they may function?
Now here is the GRAND CHALLENGE:
You can make up anything you want in your make believe world but how about showing us the CODE for this SOUL SOFTWARE then 
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17th June 2012, 09:47 AM
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Reps: 660,242,651,141,856,640 (power: 660,242,651,141,872) | | Originally Posted by mzungu So how is a fertilized human egg any different to a lizard, chimp, severely mentally h@ndicapped human, etc. ad infinitum? Don't they all have this massless software so that they may function?
Now here is the GRAND CHALLENGE:
You can make up anything you want in your make believe world but how about showing us the CODE for this SOUL SOFTWARE then
they too would have a soul, but only God can write or erase the code. I believe He erases codes of animals when they die. (but it is hypothetically possible that kittens would go to heaven, I just don't believe so)
secondly, the reason why we wouldnot see the code, is because it is massless.
__________________ Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST |
17th June 2012, 11:37 AM
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Reps: 17,756,127,470,680,070 (power: 17,756,127,470,687) | | Originally Posted by gradyll why the soul is eternal and why hell must be as well
The soul is software not hardware. And if it is software it has no mass....
the weight of an empty floppy disk is .8 ounce. But a completely full one is still .8 ounce. Software has no mass, but controls the way the machine operates.
The mass of the floppy disk is .8 ounce, and will remain .8 ounce regardless of whether its individual magnetic particles are charged in a positive or negative manner. It's the pattern of neg (0) and pos (1) polarity of the existing particles already on the disk that make up what we call "software", not whether the disk is empty (which it is not) or full (also, which it is not)
the soul is just the software of the human body...it's information in the neurons
all non-material entities (e.g. information,
consciousness, intelligence and will) are massless and thus
have zero weight. Information is always based on an idea;
it is thus also massless and does not arise from physical
or chemical processes.
secondly,
time is the fourth dimension (a physical property)
time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity. For a person travelling at 99% the speed of light, Time slows for them by a factor of 7 If they were to travel to a star 7 light years away, at 99% speed of light, it would take them 1 year, but to an observer on Earth it would have seemed like 7 years.
Time needs mass to operate, because time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity.
so since the soul has no mass, the soul is outside of time (space time=space or volume/mass + time)
By default the soul HAS to be eternal.
Hell must be eternal as well. Originally Posted by gradyll they too would have a soul, but only God can write or erase the code. I believe He erases codes of animals when they die. (but it is hypothetically possible that kittens would go to heaven, I just don't believe so)
secondly, the reason why we wouldnot see the code, is because it is massless.
So you are going to use science to tell us that science cannot show whether a soul exists or not.
Sounds to me like someone is just making this stuff up as they go along (not you personally, as you have linked to where you got the info from )
Bottom line - the soul looks exactly the same whether it is beyond time or non-existant. You have failed to show why it could be a completely made-up concept, and that could be why there is no evidence for it.
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"The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it." - Robert G. Ingersoll |
17th June 2012, 11:38 AM
| | Newbie
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by gradyll the weight of an empty floppy disk is .8 ounce. But a completely full one is still .8 ounce.
Don't you burn a disk? That means the weight should be less because you vaporized some of the disk. | | |
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