I lot of what the church practices are not found in the bible but instead are from absorbing cultural influences some being very pagan in nature.
Christianity is a unlike any other religion because for the first time the temple, the priest and the sacrifice, 3 key ingredients to most religions, is revolutionized. We are the temple, we are the priest and we can continually claim Christ's sacrifice to restore us back to God. It is us as a people that collectively make up Christ's church not any holy place or relic. We, the people, are the sacred items of Christ's church.
Yet in modern and traditional Christianity we cling to temple worship fixed with pagan obelisk steeples and value priestly roles dressing them with elaborate clothing unto their own class and giving them special sacred tasks they can only do. We cling to forums and practices liken to sacrifices repeating them over and over in order for us to be saved and this can be paralleled in any denomination.
Christianity is a revolutionary faith but we hold it hostage to so we can practice a religion that has no resemblance to the NT church. We speak a counter-gospel message when we demand to drink our wine, run to our alters and play our religion so you can have salvation but we miss the point when we emphasis the messages that only feed a ancient mindset Christianity inherently has transformed.
Domain,
Good points.
I personally don't have a problem with pagan practices being redeemed and there after used in God's service. So I don't see them as sinful. Most things are part of God's creation.
I do think church buildings can make meetings that aren't relationships and by that we miss a lot of body life, relationships and so we don't have the sanctifying work the the Holy Spirit that comes thru relationships.
Domain,
Good points.
I personally don't have a problem with pagan practices being redeemed and there after used in God's service. So I don't see them as sinful. Most things are part of God's creation.
I do think church buildings can make meetings that aren't relationships and by that we miss a lot of body life, relationships and so we don't have the sanctifying work the the Holy Spirit that comes thru relationships.
I don't see them as sinful and I agree cultural practices can be transformed and redeemed as Christian used as tools for the gospel but not at its expense. I fear however that today these "things" have shaped a misguided understanding of Christianity. When we say the word "Church" or "Christian" what are the immediate visuals the come to your head... the priest, the building, the cross? Nothing is wrong with these things but should they play the role of the dominate message of the gospel.
For example the cross is a symbol of salvation declaring that Christ died for our sins and defeated death to reconcile us back to God; it has turned into the flagship symbol of Christianity and in symbol it is a powerful tool to spread the gospel. We respond to this symbol by wearing it around our necks in expensive gold and decorated jewelry. Some people kiss it and pray to it, others put it over their door posts or beds to protect them. Most churches will display it in the most prominent position like its the very thing we worship. We emotionally look to it and are easily brought to tears with images of its power. However the cross itself is powerless and is merely a symbol, its power is in what it represents not in the physical representation of it. But our affection to it is liken to an idol and to an ancient pagan mind they would assume that the cross is the object of our worship not Christ. Of course this is all wrong and most would deny this yet their actions speak otherwise and they always feel safer with its presence. Christianity teaches the bible yet their behaviors have a very pagan mindset which shifts our focus from Christ and emphasizes Holy objects and rituals as the dominate role.
There is nothing wrong with a church building, the clergy or various rituals we participate in church however when they take on the dominate message of Christ then we do a disservice to the gospel.
Last edited by DamianWarS; 24th May 2012 at 02:18 PM.
I don't see them as sinful and I agree cultural practices can be transformed and redeemed as Christian used as tools for the gospel but not at its expense. I fear however that today these "things" have shaped a misguided understanding of Christianity. When we say the word "Church" or "Christian" what are the immediate visuals the come to your head... the priest, the building, the cross? Nothing is wrong with these things but should they play the role of the dominate message of the gospel.
For example the cross is a symbol of salvation declaring that Christ died for our sins and defeated death to reconcile us back to God; it has turned into the flagship symbol of Christianity and in symbol it is a powerful tool to spread the gospel. We respond to this symbol by wearing it around our necks in eensive gold and decorated jewelry. Some people kiss it and pray to it, others put it over their door posts or beds to protect them. Most churches will display it in the most prominent position like its the very thing we worship. We emotionally look to it and are easily brought to tears with images of its power. However the cross itself is powerless and is merely a symbol, its power is in what it represents not in the physical representation of it. But our affection to it is liken to an idol and to an ancient pagan mind they would assume that the cross is the object of our worship not Christ. Of course this is all wrong and most would deny this yet their actions speak otherwise and they always feel safer with its presence. Christianity teaches the bible yet their behaviors have a very pagan mindset which shifts our focus from Christ and emphasizes Holy objects and rituals as the dominate role.
There is nothing wrong with a church building, the clergy or various rituals we participate in church however when they take on the dominate message of Christ then we do a disservice to the gospel.
pagan idols and icons used in modern day church, is simply idolatry. Idolatry is sin just that simple it is taught throughout the entire bible.it is nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig no matter how you try to present it .the word pagan in its self has no relation to God , they worshiped everything from trees to Greek statues to the sun. Why would a Bible believing Christian even consider this nonsense and if you are throw them out ,and repent, or you will face the condemnation of sin. Sin when it is conceived will bring judgement from God. I did not write it God did , but use some common sense for a change!
Yes, the church needs to refocus. Churches need to actively say 'hey where did this tradition come from and if it's pagan, why are we adopting it?' Unlike the person who said 'we can redeem what's pagan', I wholeheartedly disagree. God always wanted a people separate and told them NOT to follow the ways of the [pagan] nations. To come out of those things, but we're still clinging to lots of things that are pagan without even giving a second thought to it.
__________________
Born-again, Spirit-filled, Torah Observant - believer in Messiah Y'shua (Jesus)!
To live in Your presence, beneath the shadow of Your wings
is all I ever want, because it’s there I find everything I ever need forever.
Love & Truth are like an old married couple, you should never see one without the other!
Does the church need a refocus? ABSOLUTELY!! A good place to start is the Bible!
I also agree that we cannot 'redeem' pagan influences. Paganism's symbols and practices have no place in Christianity. They are of Satan, why would we want to embrace them?
...We cling to forums and practices liken to sacrifices repeating them over and over in order for us to be saved and this can be paralleled in any denomination...
Well, Jesus did in fact found a number of rituals: For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is broken for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. (1 Cor 11:23-26)
The natural result of these rituals is buildings to carry them out in -- such as these remains of a very early church in what is now Jordan (the inscription says "Akeptous, she who loves God, has offered this table to God Jesus Christ for a memorial"). There is nothing pagan about that at all, and we don't need to "refocus" away from having church buildings:
In the same was this very early church at Dura-Europos in what is now Syria had a special room for baptisms. Nothing pagan there either:
__________________ Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Linear Mode
