| Christian Philosophy & Ethics The forum to discuss philosophy and ethics from a Christian perspective. |
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8th June 2012, 11:00 PM
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Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Last edited by tomana; 10th June 2012 at 02:32 PM.
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22nd August 2012, 11:57 PM
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Reps: 177,352,238,811,384,992 (power: 177,352,238,811,388) | | Originally Posted by WinBySurrender  Really? Its only a fallacy if the reasoning is a fallacy, and the reasoning is not fallacious. It is absolutely correct, and an accurate reflection of Christ's teachings. Snow likes to ignore or gloss over the "two swords" passage, but the fact is, his book does not refute the view that Jesus was telling his disciples to be prepared to protect themselves as they spread the gospel in a hostile world. Sorry, but your sources neither one "wash" with the truth.
See a sound Bible commentary like the New International Greek Testament Commentary. How ever it is interpreted within the context, no case can be made that Christ was tellling his disciples "to protect themselves." |
23rd August 2012, 12:38 AM
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And Moses said unto the people, "Fear ye not. Stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which He will show to you today; for the Egyptians whom ye have seen today, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
Exodus 14:14
The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace."
It wasn't just a command to the Old Testament Israelites, rather, was not the LORD telling them (and today us) too be gentle as a dove? Doves don't wield swords or pack a pistol under their wing.
Jesus said to not resist evil but rather, to do good unto your enemies. Doing so takes the power of the One and only holy Spirit working through you.
I heard a godly man once say, that if he were attacked he would not fight back but if it was his family deing attacked, he would do all he could to protect them. He doesn't carry a knife or firearm. No weapons.
Christians wielding 9mm Glocks ... I do not think that would be Christ-Like.
Last edited by tomana; 23rd August 2012 at 12:46 AM.
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23rd August 2012, 07:53 PM
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23rd August 2012, 08:01 PM
| | We have enough gun control.We need idiot control!
   
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Reps: 204,543,538,207,281,248 (power: 0) | | | I don't get from reading scripture that Jesus was a pacifist.
He was God incarnate after all and the Old Testament indicates God wasn't/isn't a pacifist.
Rather, I get from the scripture that Jesus commanded those who followed his teachings to be the Pacifist. While Jesus said in Matthew 10:34 that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
And remember too how the Romans sent hundreds of soldiers to take Jesus into custody in the garden of Gethsemane, which would be unusual for that many armed Romans to be thought necessary in order to detain one man amid 12 disciples. One of which we must remember, was armed with a sword and thus took off a Roman soldiers ear during the arrest of Jesus. |
23rd August 2012, 08:17 PM
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Reps: 100,609,197,234,398,480 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Amber Bird I don't get from reading scripture that Jesus was a pacifist.
He was God incarnate after all and the Old Testament indicates God wasn't/isn't a pacifist.
Rather, I get from the scripture that Jesus commanded those who followed his teachings to be the Pacifist. While Jesus said in Matthew 10:34 that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
And remember too how the Romans sent hundreds of soldiers to take Jesus into custody in the garden of Gethsemane, which would be unusual for that many armed Romans to be thought necessary in order to detain one man amid 12 disciples.
No, I don't remember that, please show us where the hundreds of Roman legionaries are. Matthew 26 ESV - The Plot to Kill Jesus - When Jesus had - Bible Gateway Originally Posted by Amber Bird One of which we must remember, was armed with a sword and thus took off a Roman soldiers ear during the arrest of Jesus.
That didn't happen. |
23rd August 2012, 11:43 PM
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Reps: 177,352,238,811,384,992 (power: 177,352,238,811,388) | | Originally Posted by Amber Bird ... Old Testament indicates God wasn't/isn't a pacifist.
Of course, God is God...Perfect, Just, etc. He commands us: "Bless those who persecute you...as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12 Romans “13″ In Context « TextsInContext
In the OT "Yahweh Is a Warrior" [the title of a book by Mennonite/pacifist OT scholar] who fights for his people with miracles, "as in Egypt" The people sin and choose the sword and turn down his promises. |
24th August 2012, 03:06 AM
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Reps: 170,687,176,442,555,872 (power: 170,687,176,442,558) | | Originally Posted by Michael Snow Of course, God is God...Perfect, Just, etc. He commands us: "Bless those who persecute you...as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12 Romans “13″ In Context « TextsInContext
In the OT "Yahweh Is a Warrior" [the title of a book by Mennonite/pacifist OT scholar] who fights for his people with miracles, "as in Egypt" The people sin and choose the sword and turn down his promises.
I think it's worth saying though that God's miracles have included supporting people who fought with the sword to victory. In the case of the Israelites, it's their distrust of God that offended Him, not that they were physically defending themselves.  |
24th August 2012, 03:36 AM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by Amber Bird I don't get from reading scripture that Jesus was a pacifist.
He was God incarnate after all and the Old Testament indicates God wasn't/isn't a pacifist.
Rather, I get from the scripture that Jesus commanded those who followed his teachings to be the Pacifist. While Jesus said in Matthew 10:34 that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
And remember too how the Romans sent hundreds of soldiers to take Jesus into custody in the garden of Gethsemane, which would be unusual for that many armed Romans to be thought necessary in order to detain one man amid 12 disciples. One of which we must remember, was armed with a sword and thus took off a Roman soldiers ear during the arrest of Jesus.
Where do you get hundreds of roman soldiers from?
It's a crowd or mob and it's sent by the chief priest etc.
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"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us."
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24th August 2012, 03:38 AM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by Trogool
That didn't happen.
eh?
__________________
"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us."
(+Desmond Tutu) | | |
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