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  #1  
Old 15th May 2012, 10:50 PM
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The Antietam of the Culture War

It took Joe Biden’s public embrace of same-sex marriage to smoke him out.
But after Joe told David Gregory of “Meet the Press” he was “absolutely comfortable” with homosexuals marrying, Barack Obama could not maintain his credibility with the cultural…

The Antietam of the Culture War
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When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency is not the problem … they’re our brothers.
-Pope Francis
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  #2  
Old 15th May 2012, 10:51 PM
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Obama Devolves
Both Vice-President Joseph Biden and President Barack Obama have said that their positions regarding same-sex marriage have evolved. When you are “evolving,” you should really watch your grammar. Otherwise, people might suspect you are devolving instead.

Take for instance, the…
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When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency is not the problem … they’re our brothers.
-Pope Francis
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  #3  
Old 16th May 2012, 08:44 AM
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Americans' feelings about gay marriage have evolved or devolved, too, depending on how you look at it.

A very small majority (which grows with the youth population) approves of gay marriage.

While I agree that it mobilizes the evangelicals, the people who've been mobilized are people who would be voting against Obama anyway.
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Old 16th May 2012, 09:19 AM
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Ironically, while the younger population approves of gay marriage, young heterosexual marriages are down as much as 70% in parts of the USA.

We're a culture in decline, no doubt about it.


Jim
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  #5  
Old 16th May 2012, 09:34 AM
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Recently Time or Newsweek did a cover feature on marriage.

The conclusion? "It's the economy, stupid."

The decline in marriage is proportionate to the decline in the middle class. The higher the level of education and the higher the level of income, the more marriages there are.

In the United Kingdom, they are taking positive steps to encourage marriage for everyone:

Marriage is becoming preserve of middle-classes, Tories claim | Politics | The Guardian

Maybe politicians should think twice before they cut college loan support and, on the state level, educational budgets. Maybe factory owners should think twice before they outsource jobs to China. Maybe investment banking firms should think twice before they buy companies, leverage them to the hilt, run off with the money, lay off workers and eliminate pensions and health insurance for the rest.

Could it be that conservatives who claim they want to "preserve" marriage are doing everything they can to discourage it?
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Old 16th May 2012, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS View Post
Ironically, while the younger population approves of gay marriage, young heterosexual marriages are down as much as 70% in parts of the USA.

We're a culture in decline, no doubt about it.


Jim
And once again, Professor Unwin is vindicated:

Unwin sought to prove that the traditional monogamous model for marriage was not essential to the maintenance of a healthy society. After studying 86 different cultures, across time and continents –and much to his surprise — he came to the inescapable conclusion that the traditional male-female monogamous model for marriage was indeed the best foundation for a healthy and productive society.

Unwin found that societies that adopted this model typically took about three generations to reach their peak of productivity and progress. After that, frequently, a gradual development of complacency and licentiousness would take place and what he described as an ”outburst of homosexuality” would sometimes occur. When that happened, and the society started to move away from the traditional model of male-female monogamous marriage as its foundation, it would begin to unravel. It would then take another three generations of deterioration from that point for the society to collapse.

How Much Time Does the U.S. Have? | Catholic Exchange
Nothing new here. We're right on schedule.

Two more pertinent articles:

The Decline of a Nation

Guide to the Issues: | Cornerstone Family Council
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  #7  
Old 16th May 2012, 06:26 PM
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And the decline of marriage is caused by the decline of the middle class.

The very people who blather on about male-female marriage the most in our society are the ones who support corporate, social, political, and global policies that exacerbate the decline of the middle class.

Either they are completely insincere or extremely stupid--or both.

(This is a general comment not directed at any posters or anyone in particular.)
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Old 16th May 2012, 06:55 PM
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Fantine

And the decline of marriage is caused by the decline of the middle class.
No it's not. Marriage is in decline because young people don't see the need for it.

Heck, when the nation was in the Great Depression and people were struggling financially far worse than we'll ever experience, marriage was still strong. Marriage in poor nations is still strong, because people understand the value in it.

The very people who blather on about male-female marriage the most in our society are the ones who support corporate, social, political, and global policies that exacerbate the decline of the middle class.
Fantine, you're painting with a broad brush here.

I support the definition of marriage as being between a man and woman, because that's what it is.

Marriage, is technically not a marriage until it's consumated in the unitive act of sexual intercourse, with the openness to new life, a thing that same sex couples can not achieve biologically.

The primary purpose of marriage, is pro-creation. Humans, like all species, are called to pro-create. Without it, the species ends.

Jim
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  #9  
Old 16th May 2012, 09:13 PM
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The decline in marriage is primarily in poorer socioeconomic groups and in people with less education.

That's the statistic--and obviously if more people were able to feel optimism about the future they would be getting married.

I don't think it was in this thread, but I posted an article about what the U.K. (seeing the same sociological trends of less affluent and less educated people staying single) was doing to promote marriage.

And none of it involved eliminating the minimum wage, reducing college loans, etc.

I know how tempting it is to think, "Just tell them they'll go to hell if they don't get married. It won't cost a dime." It won't work.
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Old 18th May 2012, 03:32 PM
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Get the government out of marriage altogether; government, in truth, has no power or right over marriage altogether. This is the sole preserve of the Church for a sacramental marriage for Christians; for non-Christians, they can utilise the private civic ceremonies of their choosing. Government has no business interfering where what is best kept private or in the local churches and communities alone. Governmental legislation can neither procure nor enact a true and valid marriage.
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