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15th May 2012, 07:38 AM
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The doctrines of "Once saved always saved".
I have somewhat a issue with this and how people view it.
When I read scripture I read it to see what it implies too. I think about it a lot. Now for example the letters to the churches in revelations I believe is good enough to disprove this doctrine. But I found plenty of resistance actually! So what do you guys think.
The Lord warns the church to repent or he will blot their names out of the book of life. To my knowledge only those who are Christians have their name in the book of life. So to have this name blotted out would be frightening! Because that means you are condemned!
I only listed one example, because as I said for a doctrine that states once you are saved you are always saved, this example alone is enough to say "no, you can become unsaved". |
15th May 2012, 07:55 AM
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15th May 2012, 10:02 AM
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Reps: 99,821,565,248,107,248 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by God's Word  
Eternal security of the believer=Yes.
OSAS=No
Be blessed,
Lee52 |
15th May 2012, 10:18 AM
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Reps: 90,184,163,515,764,576 (power: 0) | | | Seeing as one must actually die to be saved, I'd say yes. |
15th May 2012, 12:32 PM
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Reps: 2,364,276,067,814,529,024 (power: 2,364,276,067,814,559) | | Originally Posted by WilliamB Seeing as one must actually die to be saved, I'd say yes.
lol this
from what I have heard OSAS is mostly a calvinist idea?
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15th May 2012, 04:05 PM
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I have somewhat a issue with this and how people view it.
When I read scripture I read it to see what it implies too. I think about it a lot. Now for example the letters to the churches in revelations I believe is good enough to disprove this doctrine. But I found plenty of resistance actually! So what do you guys think.
The Lord warns the church to repent or he will blot their names out of the book of life. To my knowledge only those who are Christians have their name in the book of life. So to have this name blotted out would be frightening! Because that means you are condemned!
I only listed one example, because as I said for a doctrine that states once you are saved you are always saved, this example alone is enough to say "no, you can become unsaved".
Can you tell me what verse it is you are referring to?
The true name for the Doctrine of OSAS is Perseverance of the Saints. Which has been greatly distorted and caricaturised from the teaching found in scripture. Many people including those who claim to hold to OSAS falsely believe that once you profess to be a Christian you are always saved, that you can then go on to murder and live a most unchristian life and never give Christ a thought again, but because of your past you are always saved. This is what many people think OSAS or POTS is but it is outright heresy.
What OSAS actually would say that if someone turns away from the faith, then they were never part of it to begin with? True regenerate Christians will never turn from Christianity but those who to turn prove that they were never saved. "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Philippians 1:6 "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?" Romans 8:35 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37 "Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” John 10:25-30 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24 "Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen." Jude 1:24-25 "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 3-5 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19
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15th May 2012, 04:59 PM
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Reps: 127,273,754,918,942,688 (power: 127,273,754,918,946) | | Originally Posted by hl2 The doctrines of "Once saved always saved".
I have somewhat a issue with this and how people view it.
When I read scripture I read it to see what it implies too. I think about it a lot. Now for example the letters to the churches in revelations I believe is good enough to disprove this doctrine. But I found plenty of resistance actually! So what do you guys think.
The Lord warns the church to repent or he will blot their names out of the book of life. To my knowledge only those who are Christians have their name in the book of life. So to have this name blotted out would be frightening! Because that means you are condemned!
I only listed one example, because as I said for a doctrine that states once you are saved you are always saved, this example alone is enough to say "no, you can become unsaved".
Firstly, the Lord never here says that He will blot their names out of the book of life.
The Church in Sardis had some among them who were dead, and some who were alive. It would seem from the passage that most of them were dead, for they (corporately) had a name that they live, but they (corporately) were dead.
True Christians are not dead, they have the life of Christ in them and shall never die.
Firstly, the Lord never here says that He will blot their names out of the book of life.
The Church in Sardis had some among them who were dead, and some who were alive. It would seem from the passage that most of them were dead, for they (corporately) had a name that they live, but they (corporately) were dead.
True Christians are not dead, they have the life of Christ in them and shall never die.
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
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15th May 2012, 08:27 PM
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Reps: 1,914,424,210,664,591,104 (power: 1,914,424,210,664,598) | | Originally Posted by Nova Scotian Boy What OSAS actually would say that if someone turns away from the faith, then they were never part of it to begin with? True regenerate Christians will never turn from Christianity but those who to turn prove that they were never saved.
Forgive me, but what you have just said here sounds a lot like circular reasoning to me. Do the Scriptures really say that once you have come to know Christ (true regenerate Christians), you will never fall away and that if you stray away from the Way, you were never a Christian to begin with? If we are to go by your logic: does it mean that king Saul was never, at one point in time, a man of God? "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Philippians 1:6
Yes, this is entirely correct, but there is a CONDITION: Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. John 15:4-7
Christ promised us that the work the Father has started in all of us will be completed until the day of Judgment day, IF and only IF we remain in Him. "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14
It is also written: Quench not the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:19
Why would the LORD warn us against such a terrible offence, if it were not possible? "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?" Romans 8:35
Again, all true. However, SIN does separate us from the LORD. Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isaiah 59:1-2
This the very reason Christ willingly shed His precious blood for; so that we can be reconciled with God (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). So, if we keep on sinning after receiving our LORD and Christ into our lives, we will indeed be separated from God. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37
"Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”John 10:25-30
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24
This is all true, provided we persevere unto the end. The race will be won, there is no question about that, so let us make sure we are there at the finish line with Jesus Christ. Eternal life is only for those who keep their faith, hope and love in the LORD right unto the end.  Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:12-13 "Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen." Jude 1:24-25
Do you realise that the book of Jude is written as a warning to keep us from falling away as Israel and the angels did? Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. Jude 1:5-6
Though the all children of Israel were baptized by the LORD and ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink from the spiritual rock that was Christ during the exodus, not all made it out alive of the wilderness. Some of them, were destroyed by God, due to their unfaithfulness. These people all had received the knowledge of Christ, yet some of them fell away. Do you not fully understand what Jude was warning us about? He was cautioning us not to be like them and REMAIN faithful in the LORD. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—Jude 1:17-24
If we remain faithful and walk in the Spirit, the LORD will surely keep us from falling away. But if we behave like some of the children of Israel, Sodom and Gomorrah etc did a long time ago, only darkness awaits. There are numerous passages that warn us that Christians (yes, born again Christians) can indeed fall away. We would do well to pay heed to such passages; always watch and pray that we do not fall into temptation. Don't be lured into a false sense of security that "once saved always saved", or you will pay the dearest cost! Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8 "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30
What happens to those who grieve the Holy-Spirit of God? "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 3-5
What did Peter go on to say further down that very same passage? Did he not call us to live a holy life and NOT slip back to our old ways? Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:13-16
The Scriptures all say the same: persevere in Christ's name right to the end and you will be saved.
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Plead my cause, O Lord, with those who strive with me;
Fight against those who fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler,
And stand up for my help.
Also draw out the spear,
And stop those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
“I am your salvation.” | |
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