Why?

Foghorn · #1 13th May 2012, 10:31 PM

Just a simple question...........

Why did you choose Christ while others reject Him?

Elderone · #2 17th May 2012, 09:34 AM

God does the choosing NOT man.

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter 3. Of God’s Eternal Decree.

1. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;a yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.c
a. Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. • b. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. • c. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28.

2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions,a yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.b
a. 1 Sam 23:11-12; Mat 11:21, 23; Acts 15:18. • b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16, 18.

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angelsa are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death.b
a. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. • b. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6.

4. These angels and men, thus predestinated and fore-ordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.a
a. John 13:18; 2 Tim 2:19.

5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory,a out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto;b and all to the praise of his glorious grace.c
a. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4, 9, 11; 1 Thes 5:9; 2 Tim 1:9. • b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16; Eph 1:4, 9. • c. Eph 1:6, 12.

6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, fore-ordained all the means thereunto.a Wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,b are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,c and kept by his power through faith unto salvation.d Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.e
a. Eph 1:4-5; Eph 2:10; 2 Thes 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2. • b. 1 Thes 5:9-10; Titus 2:14. • c. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2 Thes 2:13. • d. 1 Pet 1:5. • e. John 6:64-65; 8:47; 10:26; 17:9; Rom 8:28-39; 1 John 2:19.

7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.a
a. Mat 11:25-26; Rom 9:17-18, 21-22; 2 Tim 2:19-20; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4.

8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,a that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.b So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;c and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.d
a. Deut 29:29; Rom 9:20. • b. 2 Pet 1:10. • c. Rom 11:33; Eph 1:6. • d. Luke 10:20; Rom 8:33; 11:5-6, 20; 2 Pet 1:10.

Foghorn · #3 18th May 2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Elderone

God does the choosing NOT man.

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter 3. Of God’s Eternal Decree.

1. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;a yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.c
a. Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. • b. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. • c. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28.

2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions,a yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.b
a. 1 Sam 23:11-12; Mat 11:21, 23; Acts 15:18. • b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16, 18.

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angelsa are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death.b
a. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. • b. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6.

4. These angels and men, thus predestinated and fore-ordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.a
a. John 13:18; 2 Tim 2:19.

5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory,a out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto;b and all to the praise of his glorious grace.c
a. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4, 9, 11; 1 Thes 5:9; 2 Tim 1:9. • b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16; Eph 1:4, 9. • c. Eph 1:6, 12.

6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, fore-ordained all the means thereunto.a Wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,b are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,c and kept by his power through faith unto salvation.d Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.e
a. Eph 1:4-5; Eph 2:10; 2 Thes 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2. • b. 1 Thes 5:9-10; Titus 2:14. • c. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2 Thes 2:13. • d. 1 Pet 1:5. • e. John 6:64-65; 8:47; 10:26; 17:9; Rom 8:28-39; 1 John 2:19.

7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.a
a. Mat 11:25-26; Rom 9:17-18, 21-22; 2 Tim 2:19-20; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4.

8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,a that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.b So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;c and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.d
a. Deut 29:29; Rom 9:20. • b. 2 Pet 1:10. • c. Rom 11:33; Eph 1:6. • d. Luke 10:20; Rom 8:33; 11:5-6, 20; 2 Pet 1:10.

I agree.

gmm4j · #4 23rd September 2012, 11:23 PM

Why did Foghorn post this question and others did not?

Hey brother!

I just thought I would try to find out the degree to which you believe God directly causes your actions.

Why did you commit the last sin that you committed and others did not?

Blessings.

BBAS 64 · #5 27th September 2012, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by gmm4j

Why did Foghorn post this question and others did not?

Hey brother!

I just thought I would try to find out the degree to which you believe God directly causes your actions.

Why did you commit the last sin that you committed and others did not?

Blessings.

I will give this a try, God stopped them from sinning, and in his free-will made a choice to not stop me and I am in process of learning from that sin and God is glorified in the whole process.

Because he chooses to be so (glorified), allways all the time and in every thing he is .

How did I do?

Eddie L · #6 27th September 2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by BBAS 64

I will give this a try, God stopped them from sinning, and in his free-will made a choice to not stop me and I am in process of learning from that sin and God is glorified in the whole process.

Because he chooses to be so (glorified), allways all the time and in every thing he is .

How did I do?

That's a pretty decent answer.

In God's specific and intimate plan for Believer A, God provided grace to overcome a sin to Believer A. In His specific and intimate plan for Person B, God withheld grace and allowed Person B to sin as he wished, so that Person B's experience through that sin would result in a stronger dependence on God.

And yes, in both cases, God is glorified.

gmm4j · #7 27th September 2012, 04:19 PM

Hey EddieL and BBAS64,

You both are in red,
Originally Posted by BBAS 64
I will give this a try, God stopped them from sinning, and in his free-will made a choice to not stop me and I am in process of learning from that sin and God is glorified in the whole process.

Because he chooses to be so (glorified), allways all the time and in every thing he is .

How did I do?

That's a pretty decent answer.

In God's specific and intimate plan for Believer A, God provided grace to overcome a sin to Believer A. In His specific and intimate plan for Person B, God withheld grace and allowed Person B to sin as he wished, so that Person B's experience through that sin would result in a stronger dependence on God. And yes, in both cases, God is glorified.

You lost me a little bit with your example. You distinguished Person A as a believer and then you didn’t say whether or not person B was a believer or not. I didn’t know if you were trying to draw a distinction. If person B is not a believer, I have a question about the experience resulting in a stronger dependence of God. I may be reading into your verbiage.

----------------------------------------

Okay BBAS 64, so you sinned and others didn’t because God didn’t stop you. Cool. I know some people that have used that excuse before

.

“Yes officer, I stole the money out of the glove compartment because God didn’t stop me. I would have stolen the whole car but God stopped me from doing that. The good thing is, through it all, I am learning to depend on God’s grace, except of course, when its not there.”

Here’s another…

“Adam, do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; even though I’m going to withhold the grace that is necessary for you to fulfill this command, thereby effectively causing you to sin against Me. I do this because it is actually My secret will for you to disobey Me and eat of the thing I have commanded you not to eat, so I can bring death into the world and Glory to myself. The whole command thing is just a charade, but by the way, I’m still going to hold you accountable.”

Instead:

Psalm 32:9
9 Do not be like the horse or the mule, which have no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not come to you.

Oh, you are right about God getting all the Glory!!!!

Eddie L · #8 27th September 2012, 04:30 PM

Nothing God ordains ever excuses sin. If He leaves us to ourselves and we sin, we sin and are to blame. If His grace helps us overcome sin, the glory is His.

gmm4j · #9 27th September 2012, 04:51 PM

Eddie,

What do you think? According to many, God decreed to "permit" the Fall. Do you think He actually decreed the Fall , or did He only allow room "permit" for sin and the Fall? Do you see a difference?

Blessings.

Eddie L · #10 27th September 2012, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by gmm4j

Eddie,

What do you think? According to many, God decreed to "permit" the Fall. Do you think He actually decreed the Fall , or did He only allow room "permit" for sin and the Fall? Do you see a difference?

Blessings.

He decreed to permit it. The gospel was the plan from the very beginning.