| General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology |
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12th May 2012, 10:55 PM
|  | Flaming Conservative
    
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Reps: 20,844,644,688,531,608 (power: 20,844,644,688,534) | | | If God will provide, why do children starve and martyrs die?
The Bible says that God will provide for those who believe. Okay, I'm cool with that - I get it. But what about martyrdom? What about when a missionary gets murdered for no reason other than expression of their faith?
And what about the starving children in Africa - children who can't understand the gospel, who aren't old enough to really 'get' the Bible, and who couldn't learn even if they were old enough because it's impossible to learn when you're starving to death?
If the Lord provides for His people, than why was John martyred? Why do some escape their imprisonment through the Lord, while others suffer and ultimately and often painfully leave this world?
How can we trust God to provide for us when there are so many times when He doesn't - when a mother's newborn child dies, when Christians die from persecution (even in the modern day, at least occasionally, in the middle east - not even missionaries, not even people practicing Christianity against the government!).
I mean, I get the fact that our lives can suck (at least temporarily) and that we can go through intense suffering, but that the Lord will see us through; but what about when He sees us through and we just end up dying in pain and suffering, and what about when innocent children die for naught?
Does it really matter if you have faith, if you lack deliverance in your time of need?
James
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13th May 2012, 08:04 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | I hear you 100%. I've been told that God is interested in our souls, not in our Earthly bodies. Basically, what is six (or sixty) years of pain and hunger to an eternity with God? That is what it all boils down to, only some try to sugar coat it.
The trouble is, our Earthly bodies and souls are connected! If we are hungry or in pain, I believe it affects our souls. Bad physical circumstances (beyond your control) can turn you into a bad person, turn your soul away from goodness. I have felt souless through the worst of my anxiety. I felt like an animal being hunted. And if I get in an accident and get a bump on the head, I will be fundamentally changed as a person. I will not be aware I even have a soul. So, it's hard for me to understand. We cannot neglect our children physically and expect them to grow up as healthy, upstanding citizens. Likewise, it's near impossible to be got at from all sides and remain a dedicated and hopeful Christian.
Last edited by Mumbie; 13th May 2012 at 08:35 AM.
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13th May 2012, 09:16 AM
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Reps: 9,094,665,067,354,249,216 (power: 9,094,665,067,354,284) | | quote=Audacious;The Bible says that God will provide for those who believe. Okay, I'm cool with that - I get it. But what about martyrdom? What about when a missionary gets murdered for no reason other than expression of their faith?
What in this instance did God fail to provide? And what about the starving children in Africa - children who can't understand the gospel, who aren't old enough to really 'get' the Bible, and who couldn't learn even if they were old enough because it's impossible to learn when you're starving to death?
You blaming God for the devil's work? If the Lord provides for His people, than why was John martyred?
The Lord provided a martyr for His people. What is it exactly you are complainig about? Why do some escape their imprisonment through the Lord, while others suffer and ultimately and often painfully leave this world?
OH, I see. You think everyone should lead the same pain-free happy life? How can we trust God to provide for us when there are so many times when He doesn't - when a mother's newborn child dies, when Christians die from persecution (even in the modern day, at least occasionally, in the middle east - not even missionaries, not even people practicing Christianity against the government!).
Again, it is unclear what you think God should be providing other than a problem free existence. I mean, I get the fact that our lives can suck (at least temporarily) and that we can go through intense suffering, but that the Lord will see us through; but what about when He sees us through and we just end up dying in pain and suffering, and what about when innocent children die for naught?
The pain of death is over after you die. Innocence is relative. Only Jesus was born innocent. So some innocent children are spared this life. Does it really matter if you have faith, if you lack deliverance in your time of need?
Matter to whom?
It can make a difference in your response.
__________________ Dear Optimist, Pessimist, & Realist...
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13th May 2012, 09:21 AM
|  | All ya gotska do is use the force!
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Reps: 1,302,911,974,671,784,704 (power: 1,302,911,974,671,799) | | | Even in the case of Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, he still died (as a martyr, btw). Giving us all material prosperity and health will only delay the inevitable. God gives us what is necessary to find Him and repent.
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13th May 2012, 09:30 AM
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Reps: 2,287,151,683,944,507,136 (power: 2,287,151,683,944,524) | | | The provisions for what is needed is there.
There is hunger in the world because there is a devil who is out to kill steal and destroy.
The Bible tells us how to overcome the devil and his bunch however many even on this forum do not accept what He said as truth.
Therefore those who do not have no weapon to overcome the things against them and also reject the very power that will deliver them.
Some of God's people that knew how to receive deliverance chose not to do so.
Heb 11:35
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
KJV |
13th May 2012, 09:37 AM
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Reps: 300,180,427,575,955,008 (power: 300,180,427,575,959) | | Originally Posted by Optimax  The provisions for what is needed is there.
There is hunger in the world because there is a devil who is out to kill steal and destroy.
The Bible tells us how to overcome the devil and his bunch however many even on this forum do not accept what He said as truth.
Therefore those who do not have no weapon to overcome the things against them and also reject the very power that will deliver them.
Some of God's people that knew how to receive deliverance chose not to do so.
Heb 11:35
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
KJV
Yet, "by faith" Moses chose to suffer, Hebrews 11. So the faith was in God, and it was God's will for Moses to go through that.
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13th May 2012, 09:39 AM
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Reps: 300,180,427,575,955,008 (power: 300,180,427,575,959) | | Originally Posted by Optimax The provisions for what is needed is there.
There is hunger in the world because there is a devil who is out to kill steal and destroy.
The Bible tells us how to overcome the devil and his bunch however many even on this forum do not accept what He said as truth.
Therefore those who do not have no weapon to overcome the things against them and also reject the very power that will deliver them.
Some of God's people that knew how to receive deliverance chose not to do so.
Heb 11:35
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
KJV
Now as far a power to be delivered, Paul had grace to go hungry in Philippians 4, he was not always delivered from hunger, in fact, one can't separate grace from weakness, according to 2 Corinthians 12.
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13th May 2012, 09:42 AM
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Reps: 2,287,151,683,944,507,136 (power: 2,287,151,683,944,524) | | Originally Posted by Source Scripture Yet, "by faith" Moses chose to suffer, Hebrews 11. So the faith was in God, and it was God's will for Moses to go through that.
If Moses chose to, and he did. Then it was Moses will to suffer.
Nowhere did it say that God made the decision for Moses and made Moses suffer.
Heb 11:24-26
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
KJV |
13th May 2012, 09:43 AM
|  | ICXC NIKA
| | Join Date: 3rd April 2007 Location: Eastern Orthodox
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Reps: 8,187,722,022,528,736,256 (power: 8,187,722,022,528,767) | | | Starvation (especially in the modern era) is typically the result of human failure.
We are capable of sharing from our means to make food available for others.
Commodity speculation drives up the cost of food, making it unaffordable.
Shifts to an industrial economy undermines agrarian society (making people less able to provide for their own needs).
Food distribution networks are managed politically.
And martyrdom is at the hand of humans.
War arises from human failure - and typically results in both (martyrdom and food scarcity).
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13th May 2012, 09:45 AM
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Reps: 300,180,427,575,955,008 (power: 300,180,427,575,959) | | Originally Posted by Optimax If Moses chose to, and he did. Then it was Moses will to suffer.
Nowhere did it say that God made the decision for Moses and made Moses suffer.
Heb 11:24-26
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
KJV
But it says he did it by faith, whereby it was the will of God. Are you actually saying moses was not called? By faith in whom? 
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