Can a Christian lose their Salvation?

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Stipulations:

1. Topic: Can a Christian lose their Salvation?
2. Affirmative: God's Word
   Opposing: R Baker
3. Rounds: 10
   
4. Alternating rounds starting each with God's Word being the first post.for a total of 20 posts.
5. Time limit between posts: 1 week maximum, there is no minimum.
6. Maximum length for each post: Limited to the preset maximum post size (I don't know just how big that is... but it's big).
7. Quotes and References are allowed; Please note that all quotes will fall under the 20% rule.
8. Start Date: Friday, May 4, 2010.
   

Link to Peanut Gallery here: PEANUT GALLERY-FORMAL DEBATE-Can a Christian lose their Salvation?

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Augsburg Confession Article XXIV; 1, 2.

Hebrews 3:1

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus..."

The epistle to the Hebrews was written to Hebrew CHRISTIANS. Yes, they were "holy brethren" and "partakers of the heavenly calling" who knew Jesus Christ as their High Priest. These CHRISTIANS were repeatedly warned, though, not to let things slip lest they lose their present standing with God.

In the first two chapters of this epistle, there is a contrast made between angels and Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant (Testament) was given "by the disposition of angels" (Acts 7:53), "ordained by angels" (Galatians 3:19) and "spoken by angels" (Hebrews 2:2). Since Jesus Christ is greater than the angels, the New Covenant is far superior to the Old Covenant. At the same time, however, the punishments under the New Covenant are "sorer" (Hebrews 10:29) than the punishments under the Old Covenant as well.

Hebrews 2:1-3

"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him..."

Under the Old Covenant, every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward. It's frightening to me, today, to hear so many professing Christians speak of sin in such a light manner as if God will no longer judge sinners. These CHRISTIANS were warned to not let things slip and also warned that they wouldn't escape if they neglected so great a salvation. Why the warnings if "once saved, always saved" is true? It isn't true. As far as I'm concerned, it's possibly the most damnable heresy ever spoken for reasons which I'll outline throughout this debate.

In chapter 3 of this epistle, we see a contrast being made between Moses and Jesus Christ. Whereas "Moses was faithful in all his house, as a servant" (Hebrews 3:5), Christ is a Son over His own house. Since the Son is greater than the servant, again, the New Covenant is far superior to the Old Covenant. Once again, however, this superiority of the New Covenant does not diminish the punishments inherent with breaking such a Covenant. In fact, as we'll plainly see throughout this discussion (if we keep our eyes open), the punishments under the New Covenant are "sorer" (Hebrews 10:29) than those under the Old Covenant. Continuing on with our contrast between Moses and Jesus, we read:

Hebrews 3:6-15

"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM UNTO THE END. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, TO-DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. SO I SWARE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST). TAKE HEED, BRETHREN, LEST THERE BE IN ANY OF YOU AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, IN DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD. BUT EXHORT ONE ANOTHER DAILY, WHILE IT IS CALLED TO-DAY, LEST ANY OF YOU BE HARDENED THROUGH THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN. FOR WE ARE MADE PARTAKERS OF CHRIST, IF WE HOLD FAST THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEDFAST UNTO THE END; WHILE IT IS SAID, TO-DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION."

Here, these Hebrew CHRISTIANS are reminded that they are Christ's house IF they hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end and IF they hold fast the beginning of their confidence stedfast unto the end. IOW, as we read earlier in this same epistle, if they were not careful, then they could let such things "slip" or be "neglected". This, of course, is perfectly in line with the direct teachings of Jesus Christ, Who said:

Matthew 10:22

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED."

And, again:

Matthew 24:12-13

"And because iniquity shall abound, THE LOVE OF MANY SHALL WAX COLD. BUT HE THAT SHALL ENDURE UNTO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED."

In scripture, the Christian life is repeatedly likened to "a race" THAT NEEDS TO BE FINISHED AND NOT JUST STARTED. The Apostle Paul put it this way:

I Corinthians 9:24-27

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: BUT I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, AND BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: LEST THAT BY ANY MEANS, WHEN I HAVE PREACHED TO OTHERS, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY."

Paul understood that those who run in a race need to be "temperate" or self-controlled IN ALL THINGS. He applied this understanding to his own spiritual life and brought his own body into subjection to the Word and will of God LEST THAT BY ANY MEANS, WHEN HE HAD PREACHED TO OTHERS, HE SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY HIMSELF. Was Paul a believer in "once saved, always saved"? Not on your life (which is what is at stake), friends. Going back to what we just read in Hebrews chapter 3, we see that the writer quoted from Psalm 95:7-11 (MULTIPLE TIMES, including chapter 4) which speaks of hearing God's voice TODAY lest our hearts become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. IOW, EVERY DAY WHICH IS CALLED "TODAY", we need to be careful not to neglect/ignore the things which God is saying to us lest our hearts become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. EVERY DAY. In fact, we read of how CHRISTIANS can "depart from the living God", having been hardened to the point of now having "evil hearts of unbelief". We also read how CHRISTIANS ought to be exhorting each other "DAILY, WHILE IT IS CALLED TODAY". Why the need for DAILY EXHORTATIONS if "once saved, always saved" is true? It's a lie right from the pit, friends. These Hebrew CHRISTIANS were reminded of what happened to their forefathers in the wilderness who provoked God with their SINS and HARDNESS OF HEART. That's right, God swore in His wrath that they would not enter into His rest and these Hebrew CHRISTIANS were being warned by their forefathers' past mistakes. Elsewhere, along these same lines, Paul said:

I Corinthians 10:11-12

"Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. WHEREFORE LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL."

Again, another admonition/exhortation to TAKE HEED LEST ONE FALL. Why all of the warnings to CHRISTIANS if "once saved, always saved" is true? It isn't true. It's a potentially damnable heresy in that it only increases the likelihood of one becoming slack or lighthearted in the things of God. There is a cost to following Christ, friends, and that cost is EVERYTHING!

Luke 14:25-33

"And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, SITTETH NOT DOWN FIRST, AND COUNTETH THE COST, WHETHER HE HAVE SUFFICIENT TO FINISH IT? LEST HAPLY, AFTER HE HATH LAID THE FOUNDATION, AND IS NOT ABLE TO FINISH IT, ALL THAT BEHOLD IT BEGIN TO MOCK HIM, SAYING, THIS MAN BEGAN TO BUILD, AND WAS NOT ABLE TO FINISH. Or what king, going to make war against another king, SITTETH NOT DOWN FIRST, AND CONSULTETH WHETHER HE BE ABLE WITH TEN THOUSAND TO MEET HIM THAT COMETH AGAINST HIM WITH TWENTY THOUSAND? OR ELSE, WHILE THE OTHER IS YET A GREAT WAY OFF, HE SENDETH AN AMBASSAGE, AND DESIRETH CONDITIONS OF PEACE. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

Friends, JESUS CHRIST said that there is a cost to following Him. It matters not if we have "laid the foundation" (and there is no other foundation than JESUS CHRIST, friends - I Corinthians 3:11) AND THEN ARE NOT ABLE TO FINISH WHAT WE STARTED. We must "endure to the end to be saved". Similarly, it matters not if we enter into the war (many people here seem to think of Christianity as more of a "playground" than a "battleground"), but rather it matters whether or not we fight the good fight unto the end. There are those who "send out an ambassador" and actually "desire conditions of peace" with the enemy of their soul, Satan. Friends, make no such pacts. Satan is a liar and the father of it and he is a murderer, too.

Well, that's my introduction. I'll pick up in Hebrews chapter 4 (Lord willing, of course) when my next turn comes. Thank you.

Salvation is that act of God whereby He delivers an individual from the guilt and penalty of the just condemnation incurred by our being, “in Adam”. Being one of his posterity all have inherited his “fallen” sinful nature so that we are constituted sinners by nature and by choice separated from a filial relationship with God and are now His enemies. Man’s nature subsequent to the “Fall” in Scripture is declared to be:

Gen 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Eccl 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Rom 3:9-12 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written,

There is none righteous, not even one
There is none who understands
There is none who seeks for God
All have turned aside, together they have become useless
There is none who does good
There is not even one

Eph 2:1-3 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Rom 8:7-8 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

A Christian is one for whom Christ has died. He has redeemed His sheep from the curse of the law by being constituted as the federal head (the second Adam) representing His children before God as their substitute. His sacrifice propitiated the wrath of God against them because of sin. Our sins were imputed (credited) to His account and His righteousness was imputed to our account. This is a forensic (legal) transaction as in a court of law where the Judge declares the defendant “Not Guilty”. It does not change that person’s character (sanctification is for that) but his judicial standing. That person is “justified”. Jesus’ death was a penal, subtitutionary sacrifice which redeemed the elect whereby, in time, it is applied to His chosen people having been purchased with the blood of Christ.

“Monergists believe that there is only one force in the universe (grace alone) that brings about regeneration in the life of the sinner. In specifics, because of the deadness of man’s spiritual state, his moral inability, the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of spiritual resurrection (regeneration) in that person, hence, “monergism” (one work). Grace is sufficient to be effective, and does not depend on some action of man. In other words, the Holy Spirit does not merely whisper in the hardened sinner’s ear, hoping that the rebel sinner will “cooperate”; rather, while the sinner is in a state of hardness and rebellion, the Holy Spirit penetrates in the will of man and performs the miracle of spiritual life (regeneration). That is grace alone. Faith does not precede regeneration, regeneration precedes faith.” -A Touchstone for God-Centered Salvation Vs. Man-Centered Salvation Alan Kurschner

It is vital at this point to present to the readers what is called “The Ordo Salutis”, latin for the order of salvation - the Biblical and logical steps that cause a lost sinner to be brought into the kingdom of God. It was in eternity past that God the Father chose/elected a certain people to salvation – “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.” Eph.1:3-6

In His time Christ’s accomplished redemption is applied individually to His chosen one and is experienced by them as a present reality: And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8:28-30 Past tense-an accomplished and certain fact.

The order of salvation is as follows:1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30) We are adopted as children of God being united to Christ and “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.” Eph.1:7-14

The first event that had to take place for us to be saved is God's unconditional love and election of us in eternity past. Then, God sent us an outward call at some point in our lives, or in other words, he brought the message of the gospel across our paths, either through the reading or the hearing of the word. Next, he gave an inward call, through the prompting of the Holy Spirit, which regenerated, or brought to life our previously dead hearts. Because of this regeneration, we experienced conversion, that is, we are given the gifts of repentance of our sin and faith in Christ. Then, in consequence of our faith, we are justified, that is, God legally declares us not guilty by imputing our sins to Christ’ account and declares us righteous, by imputing or reckoning Jesus' perfect righteousness to our own account. At the same time, God adopts us, making us his children and the brothers and sisters of Christ; and he also unites us with Christ, so that henceforth we are in him-bringing to pass in time what was predestined in eternity past. Beginning at that point, and on throughout our lifetime, God sanctifies us, or makes us holy, changing us into his likeness. Throughout this time, God is also preserving us, causing us to persevere in the faith, so that we do not finally fall away. Then, at death, we enter an intermediate state, where we are in the presence of the Lord, but without our physical bodies. And finally comes glorification, when our bodies will be resurrected and changed so that they will no longer decay, and we will inherit the new heavens and new earth, where we will live in the presence of the Lord of Glory for all eternity.” Modified slightly from-“What does “ordo salutis” mean, and why is it important?” What does “ordo salutisâ€� mean, and why is it important?

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, For Your sake we are being put to death all day long, We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Rom 8:31-39

This sample of God’s purpose, intention, accomplishment, application and preservation of all true Christians is of inestimable comfort “for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.” 2Tim1:12b

"Perseverance of the Saints" is the biblical doctrine that God infallibly preserves in faith all of those he has given to the Son (John 6:37, 39, 44, 63-65) so that they are never lost. It maintains that none who are truly redeemed by Christ can be condemned for their sins or finally fall away from the faith. For as the apostle Paul states in Philippians 1:6, “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”

The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints does not maintain that all those who profess the Christian faith are certain of heaven. It is saints - those who are set apart by the Spirit - who persevere to the end. It is believers - those who are given true, living faith in Christ - who are secure and safe in Him. Many who profess to believe fall away, but they do not fall from saving grace for they never possessed that grace that saves. True believers do fall into temptations, and they do commit grievous sins, but these sins do not cause them to lose their salvation or separate them from Christ.

This doctrine does not stand alone but is a necessary part of the Calvinistic system of theology. The doctrines of Election and Efficacious Grace logically imply the certain salvation of those who receive these blessings. If God has chosen men absolutely and unconditionally to eternal life, and if His Spirit effectively applies to them the benefits of redemption, then the inescapable conclusion is that these persons shall be saved. They are kept by God's power through faith and nothing can separate them from His love. They have been sealed with the Holy Spirit who has been given as the guarantee of their salvation, and they are thus assured of an eternal inheritance.

The P in the “Perseverance of the Saints” is the final letter portrayed in the Calvinistic acrostic TULIP. This is a consistent, cohesive representation of the doctrine of sovereign grace that must be taken as a whole - the logical conclusion of a system of theology that upholds the Biblical testimony of man’s de-merited, fallen condition and God’s freedom to save whom He chooses to His glory.

To assert that a person can be lost who has been predestined, elected/chosen, and given by the Father to the Son who propitiated the wrath of God through His substitutionary atonement and being indwelt and “sealed in Him by the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.” (Eph.1:13b-14) is to cast an aspersion of the very gospel of Christ.

In Hebrews there are two major themes the author builds upon: Christology (the person and work of Christ) and exhortation (admonition/warnings and assurance). In the following posts I intend to elaborate on these two themes, that is answer: How is the author describing Jesus’ office and ministry and “Why the warnings if "once saved, always saved" is true?

While this debate is whether a Christian can lose their salvation, I am not aware of any orthodox Christian who says that “The Perseverance of the Saints”, or lack thereof, is an essential doctrine to be believed for salvation. So to state: “It isn't true. As far as I'm concerned, it's possibly the most damnable heresy ever spoken” and by believing in OSAS “your life is at stake” and “It’s a lie right from the pit.” And “It’s a potentially damnable heresy….” – is more than a bit over-the-top. Add to these -“There are those who “send out an ambassador” and “actually desire a condition of peace” with the enemy of their soul, Satan.” I’m fairly certain I’ve previously seen this accusation leveled against Monergists by those who embrace a Synergistic salvation. I will say however that what will be demonstrated in this debate is that one position will represent a God-centered salvation and the other a man-centered one.

My opponent’s position is to prove that a blood-bought child of God can become a child of the devil and sent to the fires of Hell. As for me I am set to defend that -“being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ” Philippians 1:6

In order to better understand my opponent’s position it would be helpful if a few questions could be answered. I think all of them can be answered in one or two ways or perhaps, better, a two-fold way.

What is the foundation of God’s elective grace? Or Why does He choose one person and pass-by another?

When the gospel is presented to someone and that person accepts the terms, what is the cause of their being born-again and exercising faith?

Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of anyone in particular?

What can cause a Christian to lose their salvation?

On whom does it ultimately depend to keep one in the state of reconciliation with God?

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"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

Hebrews 4:1-13

"LET US THEREFORE FEAR, LEST, A PROMISE BEING LEFT US OF ENTERING INTO HIS REST, ANY OF YOU SHOULD SEEM TO COME SHORT OF IT. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. SEEING THEREFORE IT REMAINETH THAT SOME MUST ENTER THEREIN, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, HE LIMITETH A CERTAIN DAY, SAYING IN DAVID, TO-DAY, AFTER SO LONG A TIME; AS IT IS SAID, TO-DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD. FOR HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, HE ALSO HATH CEASED FROM HIS OWN WORKS, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. LET US LABOUR THEREFORE TO ENTER INTO THAT REST, LEST ANY MAN FALL AFTER THE SAME EXAMPLE OF UNBELIEF. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."

Having already been exhorted "not to let things slip" (Heb. 2:1), not to "neglect so great salvation" lest they don't "escape" (Heb. 2:3), to "hold fast their confidence and the rejoicing of their hope firm unto the end" (Hebrews 3:6,14), not to "harden their hearts" (Heb. 3:8,15), not to "depart from the living God" with "evil hearts of unbelief" (Heb. 3:12) and to "exhort one another daily, while it is called Today, lest any of them be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" (Heb. 3:13), these CHRISTIANS were now admonished to "FEAR, lest, a promise being left them of entering into His rest, any of them should seem to come short of it" (Heb. 4:1) and "lest any man FALL after the same example of unbelief" (Heb. 4:11) that caused their forefathers TO FALL. "FEAR" and "FALL"? What happened to "once saved, always saved"? It's a LIE, straight from Satan, the father of lies, or else all of these warnings and admonitions TO CHRISTIANS are nothing more/less than just filler in our Bibles. There REMAINS a rest to the people of God and we must LABOUR TO ENTER THEREIN. "Jesus" (better translated "Joshua") didn't give the children of Israel rest when he brought them into the promised land. No, for this very cause, God, through David in Psalm 95:7-11, spoke of "another day", saying, "TODAY, AFTER SO LONG A TIME; AS IT IS SAID, TODAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS". The Psalmist David penned those words more than 400 years AFTER Joshua had brought the children of Israel into the promised land. The entering into Canaan was NOT the fulfillment of the promise that was made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. No, they all "looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Heb. 11:9-10) and this city is "an heavenly" (Heb. 11:16) city or the New Jerusalem which will one day descend from heaven. As such, David penned the following words many years AFTER Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had died in faith, having "received not the promise" (Heb. 11:39), and many years AFTER Joshua had brought the children of Israel into the promised land:

Psalm 95:7-11

"For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. TO-DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEART, AS IN THE PROVOCATION, AND AS IN THE DAY OF TEMPTATION IN THE WILDERNESS: WHEN YOUR FATHERS TEMPTED ME, PROVED ME, AND SAW MY WORK. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: UNTO WHOM I SWARE IN MY WRATH THAT THEY SHOULD NOT ENTER INTO MY REST."

These CHRISTIANS were being reminded of the sins of their forefathers which caused God to sware in His wrath that they would not enter into His rest. What's the purpose of the warning? We need not guess, for the text plainly tells us. They were being warned that they might FEAR lest they FALL SHORT OF God's future promised rest AFTER THE SAME EXAMPLE OF UNBELIEF that caused their forefathers TO FALL or after the same example of having "evil hearts of unbelief, in departing from the living God" (Heb. 3:12). AGAIN, for this very cause, these CHRISTIANS were instructed to "exhort one another daily, while it is called To-day; lest any of them be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" (Heb. 3:13). As such, for someone to come along and preach "once saved, always saved" is nothing short of heresy. Listen, friends, this "debate" (there is no "debate") is about ETERNAL SALVATION, is it not? Well, after being reminded of how they could "come boldly unto the throne of grace, that they might obtain mercy, and find grace to help in the time of need" (Heb. 4:16), these CHRISTIANS were also reminded of the following:

Hebrews 5:8-9

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, HE BECAME THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM..."

Jesus Christ is the author of ETERNAL SALVATION unto all them that OBEY HIM, friends. Remember, EVERY transgression and DISOBEDIENCE received a just recompence of reward" (Heb. 2:2) under the Old Covenant and these CHRISTIANS were being warned that they wouldn't "escape" in they "neglected so great salvation" (Heb. 2:3) as was offered under the New Covenant. AGAIN, the punishments for breaking the New Covenant are called "sorer" (Heb. 10:29) than the punishments which were given for violating the Old Covenant. God has called us to OBEDIENCE, friends, and such OBEDIENCE is possible through the grace that God has provided for us IN JESUS CHRIST and via the indwelling power of THE HOLY SPIRIT, the very "SPIRIT OF GRACE" (Heb. 10:29). There are those, unfortunately, who can and will "do despite unto the Spirit of grace" (Heb. 10:29), but I'll address that more fully in a future post...thereby exposing the error of the "I" ("Irresistible grace") in Calvin's heretical teaching of "TULIP" which was already mentioned by my opponent in his opening remarks. Moving on to chapter 6, we read:

Hebrews 6:1-12

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; NOT LAYING AGAIN THE FOUNDATION of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, IF GOD PERMIT. FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, AND HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH, AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: BUT THAT WHICH BEARETH THORNS AND BRIERS IS REJECTED, AND IS NIGH UNTO CURSING; WHOSE END IS TO BE BURNED. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. AND WE DESIRE THAT EVERY ONE OF YOU DO SHEW THE SAME DILIGENCE TO THE FULL ASSURANCE OF HOPE UNTO THE END: THAT YE BE NOT SLOTHFUL, BUT FOLLOWERS OF THEM WHO THROUGH FAITH AND PATIENCE INHERIT THE PROMISES."

Friends, open your eyes to the following truths, if you haven't already:

1. The foundation of repentance had already been laid.

2. The writer was going to "go on unto perfection...IF GOD PERMITTED". IOW, if these CHRISTIANS had already FALLEN AWAY, then God wouldn't permit them to "go on unto perfection" as it would be IMPOSSIBLE.

3. These CHRISTIANS were once enlightened.

4. These CHRISTIANS had tasted of the heavenly gift.

5. These CHRISTIANS were made partakers of the Holy Ghost.

6. These CHRISTIANS had tasted the good word of God.

7. These CHRISTIANS had experienced the powers of the world to come.

They were CHRISTIANS, friends, and IF THEY FELL AWAY, THEN IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE, SEEING THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO CRUCIFY CHRIST AFRESH.

That's right, they had already been "renewed unto repentance", so don't let anybody come along and tell you that they were never saved to begin with (a popular heresy). Friends, when the children of Israel thirsted for water in the wilderness, God initially instructed Moses to "smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink" (Ex. 17:6). In regard to this incident, Paul wrote:

I Corinthians 10:1-12

"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that ALL our fathers were under the cloud, and ALL passed through the sea; And were ALL baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did ALL eat the same SPIRITUAL MEAT; And did ALL drink the same SPIRITUAL DRINK: FOR THEY DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM: AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. NOW THESE THINGS WERE OUR EXAMPLES, TO THE INTENT WE SHOULD NOT LUST AFTER EVIL THINGS, AS THEY ALSO LUSTED. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. NEITHER LET US TEMPT CHRIST, AS SOME OF THEM ALSO TEMPTED, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. NOW ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED UNTO THEM FOR ENSAMPLES: AND THEY ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD ARE COME. WHEREFORE LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL."

ALL of the Israelites departing from Egypt drank SPIRITUAL DRINK from that SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST. However, only two of the original 603,550 men who were 20 years old and upward, Joshua and Caleb, weren't overthrown IN GOD'S WRATH because they "wholly followed the LORD" (Num. 32:10-12). Even Moses wasn't allowed to step foot into the promised land (we know that Moses was saved, though) because he didn't "sanctify God in the eyes of the children of Israel" (Num. 20:12) THE SECOND TIME that they cried for "water". On the second occasion, God commanded Moses to "speak unto the rock before their eyes and it shall give forth his water" (Num. 20:8) which symbolizes our need to have DAILY COMMUNION WITH CHRIST THROUGH PRAYER. Moses disobeyed God and "SMOTE THE ROCK TWICE" (Num. 20:11), a type of Christ, Who is the Rock, being "crucified afresh" and God was sorely displeased with Moses and forbid him from stepping foot into the promised land. Those who "FALL AWAY" will not be allowed "to crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh" or to "smite the rock twice" but are likened to rejected thorns and briers which are "nigh unto cursing" and "whose end is to be burned". Let my opponent say of me:
　
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE JUST READ, friends. These CHRISTIANS were admonished to show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end that people like Abraham showed so that, through faith and patience, they might inherit the promises. IOW, they needed to endure unto the end to be saved or else their end was to be CURSED AND BURNED.

Let my opponent state how Paul was "confident" that God would continue his good work in the Philippians until the day of Jesus Christ. Paul was equally as "confident" that he would come again to the Philippians (Phil. 1:24-26) and we all know how that turned out, don't we? Paul also told these same Philippians to "work out their own salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING" (Phil. 2:12)..."that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, THAT I HAVE NOT RUN IN VAIN, NEITHER LABOURED IN VAIN" (Phil. 2:16). IOW, as with his other epistles, Paul FEARED that his labour towards his hearers might have been in vain.

Let my opponent also cite from Romans 8:31-39, as if it somehow teaches "eternal security". It doesn't. Paul continued:

Romans 11:20-22

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR: For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF."

MORE ADMONITIONS TO FEAR, TAKE HEED AND CONTINUE LEST THEY BE CUT OFF. Does that sound like "eternal security" to you? Let's not kid ourselves, nor let ourselves be deceived by others. Cherry-picked, out of context verses will only cause you damage. As my opening text states, let's allow the word of God to be quick (alive) and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword. Yes, let it pierce, when necessary, even to the dividing of our souls and spirits and joints and marrow and let it be a discerner of the very thoughts and intents of our hearts that we FALL NOT AWAY from God. There is no creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do.

I'll pick up in Hebrews when my next turn comes.

The main point of Hebrews is Jesus heavenly, high priestly ministry as intercessor, as the mediator of a better covenant. 8:1,6 Pertaining to Perseverance Christ is said to be: The Apostle and eternal, permanent, heavenly High Priest 3:1; 4:14-16; 5:1-6,10; 6:20; 7:17,21,24,26-28; 8:1-3; 9:11; 10:21; The author/source and obtainer of eternal salvation/redemption 5:9; 9:12, 28; Our forerunner. Our sure and steadfast hope which is the anchor of our soul 6:19-20; The guarantee and mediator of a better/new covenant 7:22; 8:6; 9:15, 24; 12:24; The Savior who completely saves to the uttermost with eternal salvation which perfectly and permanently sanctifies us 7:25, 27; 10:10-14, 18; Eternal intercessor of His children 7:25; 9:24; The author and perfecter/finisher/completer of faith 12:2 This is made plain in Romans 8:34 “who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.”

The confidence by which we may draw near in full assurance of faith is not only inspired by the faith that a new and living way has been consecrated by the blood of Christ but also by the assurance of Christ's continued priestly rule over the house of God. "Having, therefore, brethren boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus... and having a high priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith" Heb. 10:19-22. "Wherefore it behooved Him to be made like to his brethren in all things, in order that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to the end that He might make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted" Heb. 2:17, 18. "Seeing then that we have a great high priest who is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin." Heb. 4:14,15 If Christ as priest after the order of Melchizedek is the mediator and surety of the new covenant as the everlasting covenant, this means that His priestly function is operative in the final and perfect fruition of the unalterable redemptive counsel of God. The heavenly high priesthood of Christ means, therefore, that Christ appears in the presence of God at the right hand of the throne of the majesty in the heavens to present Himself as the perfected high priest to plead on the basis of what He has accomplished-the fulfillment of all the promises, the bestowment of all the benefits, and investing with all the graces secured and ratified by His own high priestly offering. This is a ministry directed to the Father. The God-ward reference is primary here as it is also in the once-for-all priestly offering. But it is also a ministry on behalf of men. As directed to the Father it has no relevance except as He is appointed for men in things pertaining to God Heb. 5:1. But since it is a ministry on behalf of men it is also a ministry which reaches to men, the ministration of help to the people of God in all their temptations and tribulations.

It is obvious that the intercession of Christ is coordinated with the death, resurrection, and exalted glory as that which insures the vindication, on the one hand, or the security, on the other hand, of the people of God. And this means that the active and abiding intercession of Christ is engaged with the permanency of the bond that unites the people of God to Christ in the efficacy of His death, in the power of His resurrection, and in the security of His exalted glory.

The intercession is appealed to here for the purpose of assuring believers that there is an abiding concern on the part of the exalted Lord with the conflicts and trials which beset the people of God and that this concern expresses itself in prayer on their behalf, that none of the assaults upon them will be successful in severing the bond that unites them to Him and that they will be more than conquerors in every conflict with their adversaries. The idea of saving to the uttermost implies salvation to the full extent, salvation complete and perfect. It is inescapable that the intercession of Christ brings within its scope all that is necessary to salvation in the fullest extent of its completed perfection. This is to say that the intercession covers the whole range of what is requisite to and of what is realized in salvation. The intercession of Christ is included to meet every need of the believer. The security of salvation cannot be severed from His intercession. The intercessory aspect of the priestly function must never be divorced from the propitiatory. The intercession is based upon the atonement. “The heavenly intercession is a messianic function just as truly as was His propitiatory offering. The intercession is simply one element or aspect of that provision which God in love and wisdom has made to bring to perfection His redemptive design. The mediation continuously carried on in the holies of the heavenly sanctuary brings to our attention the condescensions of love and grace which the governing of salvation involves.

Is His intercession performed as the exalted High Priest effectual or not? Does He, can He fail to present His blood-atonement in behalf of His saints as a satisfactory sacrifice? Does the Father reject that sacrifice presented by the Son for any believer, ever? Does Christ ever cease from interceding for His own? The old covenant is sometimes called the “Covenant of Works”. Bringing it down to its basic statement the Old Covenant says “If you will do this then you will live”. It was a conditional covenant 0f obedience to God which, of course, never made anyone perfect because of man’s enslavement to sin and so brought the curse upon the human race. “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Gal.3:10-14 Its purpose was intended to point to Jesus the Savior. “Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”Gal.3:19-25

“And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. For it is attested of Him, “ You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.” For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. And inasmuch as it was not without an oath (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, “The Lord has sworn And will not change His mind, ‘You are a priest forever’”); so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.” Heb.7:15-22 This covenant is variously called the “New Covenant”, “Everlasting Covenant”, the “Covenant of Grace”, “My Covenant of Peace”, a “Better Covenant”. “But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand To lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds, And I will write them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “ And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know Me, from the least to the greatest of them. “ For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” Hebrews 8:6-13

Most conspicuous is the missing conditional requirement of man’s obedience for the receiving of the benefit of eternal life as under the Old Covenant. God has established this New Covenant on the basis of grace alone for those for whom Christ (having both fulfilled the entire law of God in His “active obedience” and suffering the required penalty of God’s justice by our not keeping the law in His “passive obedience”) in our place. This is God’s covenant with a Christian. A promise whereby God has enjoined Himself alone to fulfill the requirements and bestow the benefits for whom Christ died. “For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, “ I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you.” And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” Heb.6:13-20-Who can break this covenant?

In Hebrews 9 the author goes out of the way to show the contrast of the insufficiency, the inability of the sacrificial system under the Old Covenant to make anyone perfect (9:9; 10:1) and the Divine Trinitarian accomplishment of the salvation of Christians: “… how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance…For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him…After saying above, “ Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), then He said, “ Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” This phrase ‘once for all” (Gr. Ephapax) appears in7:27; 9:12; 10:10 It is a designation of time. See Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament by Louw & Nida p.609 E 60.67 see also Strong’s numbers 2178/1909/530

My reason for pointing this out is because it demonstrates the finality, the completion, the perfection of Christ’s work of redemption and mediatorial high priestly intercession as an inviolable fulfillment of God’s will for “we who have been sanctified (made holy, set apart unto God). Once for all time. It is an “eternal salvation” 5:9, an “eternal redemption” 9:12, an “eternal inheritance” 9:15, an eternal covenant” 13:20 “for He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you” 13:5

If someone could say: “Yea, but a Christian can still choose to desert God because of their freewill.” Really? Seriously? Are you stronger than God? Can you annul His decree? Can you reverse Jesus work? Can you negate His covenant promise and oath? Can you reverse God’s approving verdict of Jesus’ substitutionary sacrifice and intercession in your behalf by saying NO,not accepted. Can your will trump His? I hope the readers, and my opponent, can see the enormous inconsistency with the Biblical doctrine of God’s sovereignty in salvation, from the beginning to the end this line of thinking is, which authorizes man a position superior to God.

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

In addition to more cherry-picked, out of context verses, my opponent has now begun to truncate verses as well, thereby greatly altering their original intent. For example, whereas he says that Jesus is “The author/source and obtainer of eternal salvation/redemption 5:9”, the verse actually reads that Jesus is “the author of eternal salvation UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM” (Heb. 5:9). IOW, as I’ve already documented in a previous post, EVERY DISOBEDIENCE received a just recompense of reward under the Old Covenant and these CHRISTIANS were being warned that they wouldn’t escape if they neglected so great salvation (Heb. 2:2-3) as was offered under the New Covenant. Friends, what is salvation, anyway?

Matthew 1:21

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: FOR HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.”

Jesus’ very name means “Jehovah is salvation” as in salvation FROM sin. The epistle to the Hebrew CHRISTIANS is a stern reminder of such. Christ will NOT be “crucified afresh” (Heb. 6:6) and we need to be seeking His face and His grace DAILY to walk apart from sin and in true "holiness, without which no man will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14).

My opponent also states that Jesus is “Our sure and steadfast hope which is the anchor of our soul 6:19-20” but fails to remind you of the STERN WARNINGS which PRECEDE this in relation to such a “hope”. Friends, these CHRISTIANS had PREVIOUSLY been told that they were only Christ’s house “IF they held fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope FIRM UNTO THE END” (Heb. 3:6) and that they were “partakers of Christ IF they held the beginning of their confidence STEDFAST UNTO THE END” (Heb. 3:14). Also, more STERN WARNINGS IMMEDIATELY PRECEDED his “quote” from Heb. 6:19-20. Yes, these CHRISTIANS who had “ALREADY LAID THE FOUNDATION OF REPENTANCE”, “WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED”, “HAD TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT”, “WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST” and “HAD TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME” were STERNLY WARNED that they could not be “RENEWED AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE IF THEY FELL AWAY SEEING HOW THEY WOULD NEED TO CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH” (Heb. 6:1-6). Of course, my opponent also failed to remind you that such STERN WARNINGS were followed by the admonition to “show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope UNTO THE END” and to “be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises” (Heb. 6:11-12). Again, it is NOT automatic…we have our parts to fulfill UNTO THE END in this COVENANT between two parties and God has provided us with the access to the necessary MERCY AND GRACE by which we can fulfill such…IF WE DON’T FALL AWAY (Heb. 6:6) or DRAW BACK UNTO PERDITION (Heb. 10:39)!

My opponent also states that Jesus is “The Savior who completely saves to the uttermost with eternal salvation which perfectly and permanently sanctifies us 7:25” whereas the cited scripture states that “HE IS ABLE ALSO TO SAVE THEM TO THE UTTERMOST THAT COME UNTO GOD BY HIM” (Heb. 7:25). There’s a BIG DIFFERENCE there, friends. Whereas my opponent would have you to believe that it is automatic, the scripture states the contrary. Yes, Christ is ABLE TO SAVE US TO UTTERMOST, but we must do our parts and come to God through Him DAILY and “EXHORT ONE ANOTHER DAILY, WHILE IT IS CALLED TODAY, LEST ANY OF US BE HARDENED THROUGH THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN” (Heb. 3:14). Of course, as has already been documented, the need for such DAILY EXHORTATIONS is because a CHRISTIAN can “depart from the living God” with “an evil heart of unbelief” (Heb. 3:12).

My opponent has also shared his erroneous belief that Jesus “permanently sanctifies us”. He goes so far as to quote "Having, therefore, brethren boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus... and having a high priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith" Heb. 10:19-22., but stops there. Why? Well, if we keep on reading, then we’ll have the obvious answer to this question. Continuing on, FROM THE VERY NEXT VERSE, we read:

Hebrews 10:23-31

“LET US HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH WITHOUT WAVERING (for he is faithful that promised); And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; BUT EXHORTING ONE ANOTHER: and so much more, as ye see the day approaching. FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES. HE THAT DESPISED MOSES’ LAW DIED WITHOUT MERCY UNDER TWO OR THREE WITNESSES: OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YE, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, AND HATH DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? FOR WE KNOW HIM THAT HATH SAID, VENGEANCE BELONGETH UNTO ME, I WILL RECOMPENSE, SAITH THE LORD. AND AGAIN, THE LORD SHALL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE. IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.”

Whereas my opponent would have us to believe that Jesus “permanently sanctifies us”, the author of this epistle to Hebrew CHRISTIANS plainly tells us otherwise. Again, more admonitions to HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH WITHOUT WAVERING. Why the constant admonitions to HOLD FAST to that which my opponent would have us to believe we cannot lose? As has already been documented, friends, we can let things SLIP (Heb. 2:1) if we are not careful. Also, more admonitions to EXHORT ONE ANOTHER and also not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Why? Well, the answer is given us, friends:

BECAUSE IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

Does that sound like “once saved, always saved” to you? Don’t delude yourselves, friends…it could cost you your very souls. Those who despised Moses’ law (the Old Covenant) died WITHOUT MERCY. Under the New Covenant, THE PUNISHMENTS ARE SORER. Yes, friends, Christ won’t be “crucified afresh” and willful sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth is likened to TREADING UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, COUNTING THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHEREWITH WE WERE SANCTIFIED AS AN UNHOLY THING AND DOING DESPITE TO OR DESPISING THE SPIRIT OF GRACE. So much for being automatically “permanently sanctified” as my opponent suggests. No, friends, we can COUNT THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST, THE VERY BLOOD BY WHICH WE WERE INITIALLY SANCTIFIED OR SET APART, AS AN UNHOLY THING if we go on to sin willfully. By doing such, we not only tread the very Son of God under our feet, but we also DO DESPITE TO OR DESPISE THE VERY SPIRIT OF GRACE. Does that sound like the alleged “Irresistible grace” (the “I” in Calvin’s heretical “TULIP”) to you that my opponent spoke of in his initial post? Don’t kid yourselves, friends. We can not only DESPISE THE SPIRIT OF GRACE, but we can also “FAIL THE GRACE OF GOD” (Heb. 12:15) if we’re not careful. Those who do so are NOT “eternally secure”, but rather “DIE WITHOUT MERCY”, “HAVE A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION”, are considered to be God’s “ADVERSARIES”, receive a “SORER PUNISHMENT” and receive “VENGEANCE, RECOMPENSE AND JUDGMENT AS THEY FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD”.

Regarding the precious blood of Christ which sanctifies us and what ought to be our FEARFUL ATTITUDES in relation to not sinning against it and counting it as “an unholy thing”, Peter wrote:

I Peter 1:13-23

“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, AND HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST; AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, NOT FASHIONING YOURSELVES ACCORDING TO THE FORMER LUSTS IN YOUR IGNORANCE: BUT AS HE WHICH HATH CALLED YOU IS HOLY, SO BE YE HOLY IN ALL MANNER OF CONVERSATION; BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY. AND IF YE CALL ON THE FATHER, WHO WITHOUT RESPECT OF PERSONS JUDGETH ACCORDING TO EVERY MAN’S WORK, PASS THE TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING HERE IN FEAR; FORASMUCH AS YE KNOW THAT YOU WERE NOT REDEEMED WITH CORRUPTIBLE THINGS, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; BUT WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, AS OF A LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH AND WITHOUT SPOT: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. SEEING YE HAVE PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN OBEYING THE TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT UNTO UNFEIGNED LOVE OF THE BRETHREN, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, BY THE WORD OF GOD, WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER.”

Friends, we’ve been REDEEMED BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST that we might OBEY THE TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT. As such, we ought to “PASS THE TIME OF OUR SOJOURNING HERE IN FEAR” lest we sin against such, thereby “counting the blood of the covenant wherewith we were sanctified as an unholy thing” (Heb. 10:29). God, our FATHER, will JUDGE every one of us “ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS” and He commands us to “Be holy as He is Holy”. This is possible, of course, by the indwelling of the HOLY Spirit…the very “Spirit of grace” that we can “do despite to or despise” if we’re not careful. Friends, a lot of professing Christians need to reassess what the Bible means when it speaks of being “born again”. God isn’t playing games. He’s provided a perfect sacrifice for us in JESUS CHRIST and He’s also given us access unto the very “throne of grace” through the same. He’s also made our very bodies to be the temple of the Holy Spirit, so we’re without excuse if we willfully sin against Him.

Originally Posted by R. Baker

If someone could say: “Yea, but a Christian can still choose to desert God because of their freewill.” Really? Seriously? Are you stronger than God? Can you annul His decree? Can you reverse Jesus work? Can you negate His covenant promise and oath? Can you reverse God’s approving verdict of Jesus’ substitutionary sacrifice and intercession in your behalf by saying NO,not accepted. Can your will trump His? I hope the readers, and my opponent, can see the enormous inconsistency with the Biblical doctrine of God’s sovereignty in salvation, from the beginning to the end this line of thinking is, which authorizes man a position superior to God.

Have you never read:

Matthew 23:37

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!"

???

"HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER..."

There is the will of God.

"...AND YE WOULD NOT!"

There is the free will decision of man to reject God's will.

Similarly, Stephen said:

Acts 7:51

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: AS YOUR FATHERS DID, SO DO YE."

The Holy Spirit is the very "Spirit of grace" (Heb. 10:29) and both certain Jews of Stephen's day and their forefathers had been ALWAYS RESISTING HIM. So much for "Irrestible grace"... Calvin's teachings concerning "TULIP" are heretical and you'd be wise to distance yourself from the same. There's no need for you to argue that those of whom Jesus spoke in my quote from Matthew's gospel and those of whom Stephen spoke weren't Christians. Afterall, I've already provided ample documentation that CHRISTIANS can "depart from the living God" and I'm merely attempting to show you the error/heresy of Calvin's alleged "Irrestible grace". Anyhow, this debate isn't really about Calvin's heresies, but I only mention them to hopefully show you some foundational problems with your own presently held erroneous beliefs...beliefs which I hope will be seriously challenged by the truth of God's Word.

In my next response, Lord willing, I hope to finish with the epistle to the Hebrew CHRISTIANS and then to begin to address the heresy of "once saved, always saved" more fully from other portions of the New Testament.

I am fully confident that the readers are well aware that there was no attempt to quote Scripture in the first paragraph of my last post, but a sample of Scriptural references to demonstrate the supremacy of the person and work of Christ in the perfect salvation of His children, even though, somehow, my opponent failed to grasp it. I will respond to the hortatory and warning passages as well as my opponent’s arguments in subsequent posts. However I will address 1 point here-“my opponent has now begun to truncate verses as well, thereby greatly altering their original intent. For example, whereas he says that Jesus is “The author/source and obtainer of eternal salvation/redemption 5:9”, the verse actually reads that Jesus is “the author of eternal salvation UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM”


My opponent here is, however, verifying the Scriptural and Calvinistic doctrine of “Definite Atonement” supporting my position. This verse refers, of course, to the obedience of faith. Rom 1:5, 6:14-23; 16:24-27 Perhaps you are asserting justification by works (works-righteousness) which would, at least, be consistent with your sanctification by works-both grounded in the works of the autonomous human will.

Salvation accomplishes both our regeneration and sanctification. They are the inevitable result of union with Christ. God’s eternal plan to save His people is that they should have salvation by union with the Only Begotten Son of God 2Tim.1:9 By our being united to Christ, our sins were imputed to Him and His righteousness imputed to us 2Cor 5:21; Rom 5:19; 1Cor 1:30; Phil.3:9; 1Pet 2:24 Our union with Him is the guarantee of our ultimate presence in heavenly glory 1Pet 1:3-5; Col 3:3-4

Jesus prayed: "Sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth" John 17:17-19 Our Lord declared that His being set apart unto suffering and death was the meritorious cause of His people’s sanctification. "Jesus Christ... gave Himself for us, that he might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works" Tit. 2:13-14.The sovereign grace of God alone puts us in union with Christ 1Cor 1:30-31; James 1:18; Eph 1:6; 1Cor 1:4 A predestined union by God’s will alone. It was not conditioned upon man’s “works” 2Tim 1:9; Eph1:11, 13; Gal 2:20; The believer’s union with Christ was planned in eternity past Eph 1:4 It was objectively achieved in Christ’s death and resurrection Rom 6:5 It was subjectively applied by the Holy Spirit uniting the believer to Christ 1Cor12:13 It takes place at the moment of the new birth Gal 3:27.

Christ’s death and resurrection purchases the actual imparting of new life to the believer. The “old man” (our old sinful nature) was crucified (put to death) by virtue of our union in His death and resurrection Rom.6:6.The Spirit’s regenerating work unites us to Christ. An unbreakable union results Rom.8:28-39 Because of the believer’s union with Christ, final resurrection is assured Rom 6:5;1Cor 15:22; Rom 8:17. We will always be with Him 1Thess 4:17,18. “He who has the Son has the life” 1Jn 5:12. Being united with Christ saves us from the PENALTY of sin, the POWER of sin, and, ultimately, the PRESENCE of sin. There is nothing that man can do to bring about the new birth or eternally unite a person to the Son of God. Being united with Christ is an act only God Almighty can perform–not man's effort Jn 1:12, 13; Matt 11:27; Eph 2:1-10; James 1:18

In union with Christ by faith, there is the legal imputation of Christ’s righteousness which is justification by faith Rom 3:24-26. When we have been crucified with Christ, the old rebellious, anti-God bias and its enslaving sinful passions has been put to death so that it is rendered powerless as a dominating force Gal 2:20. The believer is freed from the yoke of the Law Gal 2:4 Union with Christ produces sanctification Gal. 5:24; 1Cor 6:17-20 We will be empowered so as to make progressive victory against what remains of our corruptions. It may be 3 steps forward and 2 steps back but there should be progress Rom 8:12, 13 Eternal life is the final result of a life of sanctification in Christ Rom 6:22

This union produces an awareness of our total dependence upon the Savior during our Christian pilgrimage Jn 15:5 Christ is the source for every spiritual blessing: repentance, faith, pardon, justification, adoption, sanctification, perseverance, glorification 1Cor 1:30; Rom 8:29-39 Because of union with Christ, the believer has the resources for godly living, for victory over sin, and for progress in sanctification. Our responsibility in living out our union with Christ involves counting ourselves dead to sin and alive to God, refusing to let sin reign over us, and presenting ourselves to God as slaves of righteousness Rom 6:11-13

Sanctification is the carrying on to perfection the work begun in regeneration Rom.6:13; 2Cor.4:6; Col.3:10; 1John 4:7; 1Cor.6:19 It is the special office of the Holy Spirit in the plan of redemption to carry on this work 1Cor.6:11; 2Thess.2:13 Faith is the instrument by which union to Christ secures our sanctification Gal. 2:20

“and brings the believer into living contact with the truth, whereby he is led to yield obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life and that which is to come. Perfect sanctification is not attainable in this life 1 Kings 8:46; Prov. 20:9; Eccl. 7:20; James 3:2; 1John 1:8 See Paul's account of himself in Rom. 7:14-25; Phil. 3:12-14; and 1 Tim. 1:15; also the confessions of David Ps. 19:12, 13; 51, of Moses 90:8, of Job 42:5, 6, and of Daniel 9:3-20 "The more holy a man is, the more humble, self-renouncing, self-abhorring, and the more sensitive to every sin he becomes, and the more closely he clings to Christ. The moral imperfections which cling to him he feels to be sins, which he laments and strives to overcome. Believers find that their life is a constant warfare, and they need to take the kingdom of heaven by storm, and watch while they pray. They are always subject to the constant chastisement of their Father's loving hand, which can only be designed to correct their imperfections and to confirm their graces. And it has been notoriously the fact that the best Christians have been those who have been the least prone to claim the attainment of perfection for themselves.” AA Hodge- Outlines of Theology.

When Paul describes the Corinthian believers’ definitive sanctification the tense indicates an instantaneous act of God whereby they were changed from a state of corruption to that of holiness-"but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" 1 Cor.6:11 Paul tells us that "Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish" Eph.5:25-27

“The design of Christ’s death was to make his people holy. It accomplishes this end by reconciling them to God, and by securing for them the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Charles Hodge-Ephesians

Sanctification and justification do not exist apart from each other, for both are God’s purposed result of union with Christ.The author of Hebrews points to the objective work of Christ as the foundation of our sanctification. "Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate" Heb.13:12 Christ’s shed blood not only removes the guilt and penalty of sin but also merits and guarantees the application of His work to His people. Thus our Lord is the "author," "captain" of salvation in the most comprehensive sense of the term Heb.2:10; 12:2

“Union with Christ is a very inclusive subject. It embraces the wide span of salvation from its ultimate source in the eternal election of God to its final fruition in the glorification of the elect. It is not simply a phase of the application of redemption; it underlies every aspect of redemption both in its accomplishment and in its application. Union with Christ binds all together and insures that to whom Christ has purchased redemption he effectively applies and communicates the same.” John Murray-Redemption Accomplished and Applied

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” Romans6:1-14

The apostle Paul in chapter 5 concluded his teaching of justification by faith apart from the works of the law. In the second half of the chapter, Paul sets forth the contrast between Adam and Christ. From Adam’s offense came the reign of sin and death. But Christ by His redemptive work brings justification and life. "Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more" (v. 21). In chapter six Paul introduces a new subject (sanctification) by asking the question "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" Rom.6:1 This question is reminds us of an earlier hypothetical objection to the gospel: "Let us do evil (continue sinning) that good may come (that grace may abound more and more)" Rom. 3:8 It was argued that if people are saved apart from the law and human merit (solely by grace) then Christianity is a religion of lawlessness. In other words, if you do not have to do good works to be saved then why not have a good time and sin as much as you please? Jude warned the church against such teaching when he wrote: "For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ" Jude 4

Grace does more than justify: it also sanctifies. It unites us to Christ (1-14) The question "How shall we who have died to sin live any longer in it?" (v.2) shows at the outset the absurdity of the false inference regarding grace. The power of sin in a believer’s life is broken for a distinct purpose that Christians may walk in newness of life. Christ's death causes "death to sin". His resurrection causes a new life of obedience by virtue of our union. The power of sin is not broken for a life of ease and comfort. Christians are saved unto good works Eph.2:10 The resurrection of Christ that took place objectively in the past is the basis of regeneration. There is a vital union between Christ and the elect that guarantees a believer's definitive sanctification and progressive walk in holiness. The resurrected Christ sends the Holy Spirit who first works monergistically to regenerate dead sinners and then works synergistically (participates, cooperates) in a believer’s progressive sanctification.

“It must be remembered that while the subject is passive with respect to that divine act of grace whereby he is regenerated, after he is regenerated he cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of sanctification. The Holy Ghost gives the grace, and prompts and directs in its exercise, and the soul exercises it. Thus while sanctification is a grace, it is also a duty; and the soul is both bound and encouraged to use with diligence, in dependence upon the Holy Spirit, all the means for its spiritual renovation, and to form those habits resisting evil and of right action in which sanctification so largely consists. Now, every Christian who really has experienced the grace of Christ must, unless very greatly prejudiced, recognize the fact that this work of sanctification is the end and the crown of the whole process of salvation. We insist upon and put forward distinctly the great doctrine of justification as a means to an end. It is absolutely necessary as the condition of that faith which is the necessary source of regeneration and sanctification; and every person who is a Christian must recognize the fact that not only will it issue in sanctification, but it must begin in sanctification. This element must be recognized as characteristic of the Christian experience from the first to the last. And any man who thinks that he is a Christian, and that he has accepted Christ for justification when he did not at the same time accept Christ for sanctification, is miserably deluded in that very experience. He is in danger of falling under the judgment of which Paul admonishes when he speaks of the wrath of God coming down from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, and with special reference to those who ‘hold the truth in unrighteousness.” A.A. Hodge-Evangelical Theology

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

Hebrews 10:32-39

"But call to remembrance the former days, in which, AFTER YE WERE ILLUMINATED, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better substance. CAST NOT AWAY THEREFORE YOUR CONFIDENCE, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. BUT WE ARE NOT OF THEM WHO DRAW BACK UNTO PERDITION; BUT OF THEM THAT BELIEVE TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL."

Again, these were CHRISTIANS who had already been "illuminated" or "those who were once enlightened" (Heb. 6:4). As they had already been warned that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to be "renewed AGAIN unto repentance if they fell away", seeing how they would need to "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh" (Heb. 6:6), even so were they now being warned of the same exact thing. Yes, these CHRISTIANS were once again admonished to "cast not away therefore your confidence", even as they had already been told that they were "Christ's house IF they held fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope STEDFAST UNTO THE END" (Heb. 3:6) and that "they were made partakers of Christ IF they held the beginning of their confidence STEDFAST UNTO THE END" (Heb. 3:14). The writer of this epistle to these Hebrew CHRISTIANS then cites from Habbakuk how that "the just shall live by faith". He continues, however, how that THE POSSESSOR OF SUCH FAITH WHO THEN "DRAWS BACK" ACTUALLY "DRAWS BACK UNTO PERDITION". Friends, PERDITION is NOT a place of "eternal security".

Continuing on to Hebrews chapter 11, we come to what has been called by many "the hall OF FAITH" or the "great cloud of witnesses" (Heb. 12:1) who have gone before us AND WHO MAINTAINED AN ENDURING FAITH, EVEN AT THE THREAT OF DEATH OR TO THE ACTUAL POINT OF DEATH FOR THEIR FAITH AND OBEDIENCE TO CHRIST. Again, IN CONTEXT, this "great cloud of witnesses" immediately succeeds the writer's admonition to NOT "draw back unto perdition". IOW, as is the common theme throughout scripture, WE MUST ENDURE TO THE END IN ORDER TO BE SAVED. Why all of these admonitions/exhortations/witnesses if "once saved, always saved" is true? As I've maintained all along, it isn't true, but is instead a heresy which contradicts the entirety of scripture. Also, although there are many who insist that such a "drawing back" merely/only refers to those who abandon their faith in Christ in order to "draw back" to the rituals of the Old Testament law (which would still refute "once saved, always saved"), the writer of this epistle constantly warns of those who draw back TO SIN. Yes, friends, as we've already read, Jesus Christ is "the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Heb. 5:9). This is not to say that a Christian will never momentarily sin in their lifetime, but rather that we must DAILY give heed to the Lord's voice and not allow ourselves to be "hardened by the deceitfulness OF SIN" (Heb. 3:13)...even to the possible point of "DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD with an evil heart of unbelief" (Heb. 3:12). We read:

Hebrews 12:1-4

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, AND THE SIN WHICH DOTH SO EASILY BESET US, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, LEST YE BE WEARIED AND FAINT IN YOUR MINDS. YE HAVE NOT YET RESISTED UNTO BLOOD, STRIVING AGAINST SIN."

As I mentioned in a previous post, the Christian's life is repeatedly likened to "a race" WHICH NEEDS TO BE FINISHED AND NOT JUST STARTED. In this "race", as good runners, we must "lay aside every weight, AND THE SIN WHICH DOTH SO EASILY BESET US". Jesus, as always, needs to be our example. He "resisted unto blood" in His striving against sin, even to the point of being nailed to a cross, and we need to be willing to do the same, if need be, in our own "strivings against sin". The author of this epistle then reminds these CHRISTIANS of an exhortation from Proverbs 3:11-12 which they had apparently "forgotten". We read:

Hebrews 12:5-17

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. IF YE ENDURE CHASTENING, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peacable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; AND MAKE STRAIGHT PATHS FOR YOUR FEET, LEST THAT WHICH IS LAME BE TURNED OUT OF THE WAY; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord; LOOKING DILIGENTLY LEST ANY MAN FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD; LEST ANY ROOT OF BITTERNESS SPRINGING UP TROUBLE YOU, AND THEREBY MANY BE DEFILED; LEST THERE BE ANY FORNICATOR, OR PROFANE PERSON, AS ESAU, WHO FOR ONE MORSEL OF MEAT SOLD HIS BIRTHRIGHT. FOR YE KNOW HOW THAT AFTERWARD, WHEN HE WOULD HAVE INHERITED THE BLESSING, HE WAS REJECTED: FOR HE FOUND NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE, THOUGH HE SOUGHT IT CAREFULLY WITH TEARS."

As children of God, we must "endure chastening" and "faint not" when the Lord rebukes us FOR SIN in our lives. Yes, friends, when God shows us "that which is lame" in us, we need to repent and "make straight paths for our feet...LEST WE BE TURNED OUT OF THE WAY. Now, what do you suppose that that means? It means just what it says. We need to be LOOKING DILIGENTLY LEST ANY OF US FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD. "Fail of the grace of God"? But my opponent, in his error, would have us to believe that such is impossible. You need to choose, friends, whom you're going to believe:

1. The scriptures, IN CONTEXT.
2. Cherry-picked, OUT OF CONTEXT verses...verses which are REFUTED within the same epistles being cited...such as those that my opponent has been regularly offering.

I've made my decision and I'll not be swayed from it. As I already documented in a previous post, CHRISTIANS can "do despite to the Spirit of grace" (Heb. 10:29) and now we see that CHRISTIANS can also "FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD". It's not "Irrestible grace" (the "I" in Calvin's heretical "TULIP" teaching), friends. Rather, it's he who endures to the end shall be saved...EVEN AS JESUS CHRIST TAUGHT. We also see, if we don't shut our eyes, how that many are "defiled" by "roots of bitterness" and how "fornicators" and "profane persons", LIKE ESAU, CAN ACTUALLY SELL THEIR BIRTHRIGHT. Now, what do you suppose that that means? Friends, once again, it means just what it says. In the example of Esau, he "found no place of repentance" and he was ultimately rejected by God. So much so that scripture actually states that God "HATED ESAU" (Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:13). Friends, God chastens us that "we might be partakers of his holiness" (Heb. 12:10) because "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14). It's not automatic, friends...we need to repent when God chastens us and let that which is lame be healed OR ELSE WE WILL BE TURNED OUT OF THE WAY AND FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD. This may not be the type of "grace" that some folks are accustomed to, but it is the grace revealed in scripture, nonetheless. In fact, continuing on, we read:

Hebrews 12:18-29

"For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake): But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. SEE THAT YE REFUSE NOT HIM THAT SPEAKETH. FOR IF THEY ESCAPED NOT WHO REFUSED HIM THAT SPAKE ON EARTH, MUCH MORE SHALL NOT WE ESCAPE, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM THAT SPEAKETH FROM HEAVEN: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, LET US HAVE GRACE, WHEREBY WE MAY SERVE GOD ACCEPTABLY WITH REVERENCE AND GODLY FEAR: FOR OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE."

AGAIN, we see that CHRISTIANS CAN REFUSE THEIR GOD WHO SPEAKS FROM HEAVEN AND THAT THEY WILL NOT ESCAPE IF THEY TURN AWAY FROM HIM.

How much plainer can it be, friends? "Once saved, always saved" is a HERESY. My hope for all who follow this debate and research the scriptures being presented for themselves is that you will all ENDURE UNTO THE END AND BE SAVED...BUT IT IS NOT "A GIVEN". AGAIN, the New Covenant is a "better covenant" that is based upon "better promises", BUT IT ALSO HAS SORER PUNISHMENTS ATTACHED TO IT FOR THOSE WHO VIOLATE IT. Yes, as we just read, "MUCH MORE shall we not escape, if we turn away from Him that speaks from heaven". "MUCH MORE"! Yes, friends, those who "refused God's voice" when He spoke FROM EARTH amidst the fiery tempests of Mt. Sinai DID NOT ESCAPE. "MUCH MORE", CHRISTIANS, WHO HAVE COME UNTO MT. ZION, SHALL NOT ESCAPE IF WE REFUSE HIM WHO NOW SPEAKS FROM HEAVEN. This isn't a game, friends. God has provided us with the necessary grace to finish this race, but it's not the "greasy grace" which some (many) preach and teach. No, as we just read, WE NEED GOD'S GRACE SO THAT WE MAY SERVE HIM ACCEPTABLY WITH REVERENCE AND GODLY FEAR: FOR OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE. "Our God"? Yes, friends, with all of the superiority of the New Covenant to the Old Covenant, it is still THE SAME GOD AND HE IS A CONSUMING FIRE.

Deuteronomy 4:24

"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God."

I'll stop here, having finished with the many admonitions and warnings in the epistle to the Hebrew CHRISTIANS and I will begin to further expose the error of "once saved, always saved" from other portions of the New Testament when my next turn in this debate comes.

Thank you.

Before we go too far I need to examine some errors of my opponent. He states:

“My opponent also states that Jesus is “The Savior who completely saves to the uttermost with eternal salvation which perfectly and permanently sanctifies us 7:25” whereas the cited scripture states that “HE IS ABLE ALSO TO SAVE THEM TO THE UTTERMOST THAT COME UNTO GOD BY HIM” (Heb. 7:25). There’s a BIG DIFFERENCE there, friends. Whereas my opponent would have you to believe that it is automatic, the scripture states the contrary. Yes, Christ is ABLE TO SAVE US TO UTTERMOST, but we must do our parts and come to God through Him DAILY and “EXHORT ONE ANOTHER DAILY, WHILE IT IS CALLED TODAY, LEST ANY OF US BE HARDENED THROUGH THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN” (Heb. 3:14). Of course, as has already been documented, the need for such DAILY EXHORTATIONS is because a CHRISTIAN can “depart from the living God” with “an evil heart of unbelief” (Heb. 3:12).” And: “Whereas my opponent would have us to believe that Jesus “permanently sanctifies us”, the author of this epistle to Hebrew CHRISTIANS plainly tells us otherwise.”

Please notice the “full” list of verses I provided-7:25, 27; 10:10-14; 18 I will include the missing verses:

25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them 26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And on their mind I will write them,” He then says, 17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

“Able” above Gr. “dunamai”; power, ability.-Strong’s 1410. “Uttermost” Gr. “panteles”; finally and completely in all ways; of time: forever, for all time.-BAGD 608c 1979

My opponent imports into these texts man’s efforts to bring about his salvation (works-righteousness) by implying that while Christ is “able” to save a person (to the uttermost), Christ’s freedom (and sovereignty) to save (to the uttermost) whom he will is dependent upon that person’s autonomous freewill actions. Man has the ultimate authority to move God to regenerate him by man’s approving freewill. Then that man must perform, with some help from God of course, according to an (as yet) unspecified set of rules to the end. A man-centered gospel.

You cannot earn God’s favor.

“You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort? Have you suffered so many things for nothing? – if indeed it was for nothing? Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard? Just as Abraham ‘believed God, and it was credited him for righteousness’, so then, understand that those who believe are the sons of Abraham. And the scripture foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the gospel to Abraham ahead of time, saying, ‘All the nations will be blessed in you.’ So then those who believe are blessed along with Abraham the believer. For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under the curse, because it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law’” Gal.3:1-10

Notice the “two-fold” effect of salvation by grace: justification (declared not guilty by the imputed righteousness of Christ) and sanctification (our “finish” in good works progressively) both predetermined (before ordained KJV) by God alone.

Originally Posted by R. Baker If someone could say: “Yea, but a Christian can still choose to desert God because of their freewill.” Really? Seriously? Are you stronger than God? Can you annul His decree? Can you reverse Jesus work? Can you negate His covenant promise and oath? Can you reverse God’s approving verdict of Jesus’ substitutionary sacrifice and intercession in your behalf by saying NO,not accepted. Can your will trump His? I hope the readers, and my opponent, can see the enormous inconsistency with the Biblical doctrine of God’s sovereignty in salvation, from the beginning to the end this line of thinking is, which authorizes man a position superior to God.

My opponent evidently holds that man sits on the throne of his salvation. Almighty God does all he can to save someone but with all of His efforts being ineffectual, until man grants his approval, He must bow down and submit to the more almighty power of man’s freewill. He asserts:

“Have you never read:Matthew 23:37

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!"

"HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER..."
There is the will of God.

"...AND YE WOULD NOT!"
There is the free will decision of man to reject God's will.”

I am certainly not against using a proof text when the context from which it is drawn supports an argument. But when one offers a verse leaving out the context- which actually means the opposite of one’s position, the reader can see that that person’s tradition has guided his understanding not any thoughtful exegesis of the passage. This single verse is one of the most mishandled and misrepresented texts, by those who attempt to impose their tradition against the clear meaning of the statements of Scripture, I know. Matthew 23:37-in context-is not about man’s will overcoming God’s will as my opponent would have you believe.

Beginning at verse 13:

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14[Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17 You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing, but whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.’ 19 You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20 Therefore, whoever swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells within it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?34“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

First notice that “WOES” are pronounced against the religious leaders of Jerusalem. Jesus repeatedly calls them: hypocrites, blind guides, sons of hell, fools, lawless, murderers, serpents, vipers, persecutors. All these follow verse 13

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Jesus says “How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.” They were “unwilling” to come to Christ. They continually dogged him threatening with expulsion from the synagogue community any of their “people”, their “proselytes”, their “children” who followed him. Jesus’ desire was to gather their children to him. However they were “unwilling” to allow their “children” to be gathered to Christ and receive the gospel which gives entrance to the heavenly kingdom.

Judgment is pronounced: “Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!”

Whose will is sovereign?

The Jewish leaders were successful in having Jesus put to death. That was their desire. And they are culpable. But we also know that they were fulfilling God’s will. “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power… 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Although they tried to prevent their followers from being gathered by Jesus---whose will was dominating? “…look, the world has gone after Him.” Jn.12:19 After Pentecost the Apostles were so successful in gathering “their children” that the Jewish religious leaders proclaimed: “These that have turned the world upside down” Acts 17:6b Then in 70 AD Titus Vespasian destroyed the Jewish Temple leveling it right down to the ground and scattering, not only the Jews, but more importantly, the followers of Christ propelling them to proclaim the gospel throughout the world.

Their will was to effectually prevent God from the free-exercise and accomplishment of His will in gathering whomsoever HE chooses.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected (kept KJV) by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” 1Pet.1:3-5

Through faith-a gift from God. Through faith-not of works but unto good works. Good works are the result/fruit of being redeemed. There is our hope. There is our confidence. There is the Gospel we are to present to sinners. A God-centered gospel.

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

How sad that my opponent calls Biblical truth "error". In his vain attempt to expose my alleged "error", my opponent has only managed to actually confirm the Biblical truths that I've been sharing. Yes, Jesus' sacrifice is "once for all", BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHY "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" IS A HERESY. As I've already shown, those who have been sanctified or set apart unto God by this "once for all" sacrifice can also "TREAD UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND COUNT THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH THEY WERE SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, AND DO DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE" (Heb. 10:29). For such, far from being "always saved", they have "A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION" (Heb. 10:27) as "THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN" (Heb. 10:26). IOW, as I've already documented, those who were "ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, THEN IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH, AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME" (Heb. 6:4-6).

IMPOSSIBLE!

Again, they were already "renewed unto repentance" and have consequently "fallen away" and it is now "IMPOSSIBLE" for them to be saved, seeing how they would need to "crucify the Son of God afresh".

So, yes, my opponent is correct in asserting that Christ's sacrifice was truly "once for all", BUT IF THIS "ONCE FOR ALL" SACRIFICE IS TRAMPLED UPON, THEN THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE, as Christ will not be "crucified afresh".

Friends, can it get any plainer than that?

Jude certainly didn't believe in "once saved, always saved".

Jude 3-4

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

Friends, this is a lot more than just some friendly "debate" that you're witnessing. Jude warned of those who would "creep in unawares" and "turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness"...thereby "denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ". What, EXACTLY, was Jude warning AGAINST? There's no need to guess. We read:

Jude 5

"I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, HOW THAT THE LORD, HAVING SAVED THE PEOPLE OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, AFTERWARD DESTROYED THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT."

"Having saved".

"Afterward destroyed".

Does that sound like "once saved, always saved" to you?

Jude 6

"And the angels WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE, BUT LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION, HE HATH RESERVED IN EVERLASTING CHAINS UNDER DARKNESS UNTO THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY."

The FALLEN angels were originally fine IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE. However, when they LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION...

You see it, don't you?

These "ungodly men who were before ordained TO CONDEMNATION" are likened to Cain, Balaam and Korah. We read:

Jude 11

"Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core."

I'll come back to Cain in a moment, but Balaam was "ONCE" a prophet of God, wasn't he? Read his account in Numbers chapters 22-24 and you'll see that he "ONCE" had open communion and fellowship with God and even accurately prophesied the future. Where is he NOW? I'll give you a clue:

When God pronounces "WOE!" upon someone, it isn't a good thing. Was Balaam "once saved, always saved"? Don't kid yourselves, friends. NO, he was not.

What about Korah?

Wasn't Korah "ONCE" a priest of God? Read his account in Numbers chapter 16. Although Korah was "ONCE" part of the Levitical priesthood, THE EARTH OPENED UP AND SWALLOWED HIM ALIVE BECAUSE OF HIS REBELLION (Num. 16:32). Was Korah "always saved"? Again, don't kid yourselves. NO, he was not and this HERESY of "once saved, always saved" IS EXACTLY WHAT JUDE WAS ADDRESSING. Jude continued:

Jude 12

"These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves WITHOUT FEAR: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; TREES WHOSE FRUIT WITHERETH, WITHOUT FRUIT, TWICE DEAD, PLUCKED UP BY THE ROOTS..."

What do you suppose that that means? It means EXACTLY what it says. How could persons who were yet alive (which is whom Jude was describing, in context) be "TWICE DEAD"? Don't erroneously try to attribute this "TWICE DEAD" to "the second death" spoken of in Revelation. That "second death" comes AFTER people have already PHYSICALLY DIED. These folks, in contrast and in context, were yet alive and yet were described as being "TWICE DEAD". How can this be? It's not too difficult to figure out, friends...especially within the context of what Jude was describing.

THESE WERE FOLKS WHO WERE ONCE DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND SINS AND WHO WERE BORN AGAIN. AFTERWARDS, THEY FELL AWAY AND WERE NOW "TWICE DEAD", EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE YET ALIVE.

Their "fruit" had "withered" and they were going to be "plucked up by the roots". Peter spoke of these same things. We read:

II Peter 2:1-4

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you, WHO PRIVILY SHALL BRING IN DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. AND MANY SHALL FOLLOW THEIR PERNICIOUS WAYS; BY REASON OF WHOM THE WAY OF TRUTH SHALL BE EVIL SPOKEN OF. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment..."

Friends, this isn't a game and this most certainly isn't merely "a debate". This is an open conflict between FALSE TEACHERS WHO PRIVILY BRING IN DAMNABLE HERESIES (YES, DAMNABLE HERESIES) and have MANY WHO FOLLOW THEIR PERNICIOUS WAYS and those who are speaking the truth...only to have such truths EVIL SPOKEN OF. Peter leaves NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER as to exactly what type of DAMNABLE HERESY he is referring to. Like Jude, Peter goes immediately to the angels who LEFT THEIR FIRST ESTATE, ONLY TO BE CAST DOWN TO HELL. Friends, I ask you, once again:

Does this sound like "once saved, always saved" to you?

Those who teach such, friends, IF WE'RE TO BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES, "bring upon themselves swift destruction". Personally, I'll not be counted amongst their lot. Peter, like Jude, continued on to say:

II Peter 2:15-17

"WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, FOLLOWING THE WAY OF BALAAM the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb @ss speaking with man's voice forbad the madness OF THE PROPHET."

Again, friends, Balaam was "ONCE" a prophet of the Lord. However, just like those "FALSE TEACHERS WHO PRIVILY BRING IN DAMNABLE HERESIES", Balaam "forsook the right way and went astray". Again, I ask:

Was Balaam "once saved, always saved"?

NO, friends, he was not. Peter continued:

II Peter 2:18-22

"For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, THOSE THAT WERE CLEAN ESCAPED FROM THEM WHO LIVE IN ERROR. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. FOR IF AFTER THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN, AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING. FOR IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEM NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIVERED UNTO THEM. BUT IT IS HAPPENED UNTO THEM ACCORDING TO THE TRUE PROVERB, THE DOG IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; AND THE SOW THAT WAS WASHED TO HER WALLOWING IN THE MIRE."

Friends, these people were "ONCE SAVED". Yes, they had "CLEAN escaped from them who live in error". The word that is translated here as "clean" means the following:

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
　
Friends, these people were TRULY, IN REALITY, POINT OF FACT INDEED ESCAPED FROM THEM WHO LIVE IN ERROR, so don't let someone come along and deceive you into believing that they were never truly saved to begin with. Friends, these people were "ONCE SAVED"! Yes, they had "ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST" only to eventually be "AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN AND OVERCOME". For such, FAR FROM being "once saved, always saved", THEIR LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING. Yes, Peter said that "IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEM NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAD KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIVERED UNTO THEM". Come on, friends. Open your eyes and don't be counted amongst the MANY who will be deceived by FALSE TEACHERS and their DAMNABLE HERESIES. Yes, friends, a dog CAN turn back to its vomit and a pig that WAS WASHED can turn back to wallowing in the mire.

What about Cain?

Cain murdered his brother because his own works were evil and his brother's works were righteous.

Friends, let me speak plainly to you...

Such is exacty the "spirit" which underlies such so-called "debates" as this one that you're presently viewing. Again, those who speak the truth will be evil spoken of. Please ask yourselves the following questions:

Who is exhorting you unto good works in this debate and all the more as the day of Christ's return is approaching and who is "feeding himself without fear"?

Friends, these sayings are in the scriptures which I've cited and they're not to be misconstrued as "flames" or anything of such a manner. Both participants in this debate cannot be correct as we're insisting upon two totally contrasting "truths". One of us is clearly in error and the scriptures and the Holy Spirit are our guides. Peter closed out his second epistle with the following admonition:

II Peter 3:13-18

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, BE DILIGENT THAT YE MAY BE FOUND OF HIM IN PEACE, WITHOUT SPOT, AND BLAMELESS. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, BEWARE LEST YE ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEDFASTNESS. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."

Peter admonished his readers unto DILIGENCE and told them to BEWARE LEST THEY ALSO BE LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED AND FALL FROM THEIR OWN STEDFASTNESS.

Again, what does this mean? It means EXACTLY what it says. Believers can FALL AWAY and "once saved, always saved" is a potentially DAMNABLE HERESY...just as I stated in a previous post.

How, then, do we show such DILIGENCE and keep ourselves from FALLING AWAY?

Peter answered such important questions earlier on in this same epistle when he wrote:

II Peter 1:5-12

"AND BESIDE THIS, GIVING ALL DILIGENCE, ADD TO YOUR FAITH VIRTUE; AND TO VIRTUE KNOWLEDGE; AND TO KNOWLEDGE TEMPERANCE; AND TO TEMPERANCE PATIENCE; AND TO PATIENCE GODLINESS; AND TO GODLINESS BROTHERLY KINDNESS; AND TO BROTHERLY KINDNESS CHARITY. FOR IF THESE THINGS BE IN YOU, AND ABOUND, THEY MAKE YOU THAT YE SHALL NEITHER BE BARREN NOR UNFRUITFUL IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. BUT HE THAT LACKETH THESE THINGS IS BLIND, AND CANNOT SEE AFAR OFF, AND HATH FORGOTTEN THAT HE WAS PURGED FROM HIS OLD SINS. WHEREFORE THE RATHER, BRETHREN, GIVE DILIGENCE TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: FOR IF YE DO THESE THINGS, YE SHALL NEVER FALL: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kindgom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth."

Peter listed several things which we need to DILIGENTLY ADD TO OUR FAITH and which need to ABOUND lest we be found "barren and unfruitful" and lest we "forget that we were ONCE PURGED from our old sins". This, friends, is how we "MAKE OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE" and this is how "WE NEVER FALL". This was both Peter's and Jude's "present truth" which is contrasted by the DAMNABLE HERESIES of FALSE TEACHERS.