Can a Christian lose their Salvation?

Hebrews 3:7-4:11

"Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,“ Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tried Me by testing Me,and saw My works for forty years. “Therefore I was angry with this generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, And they did not know My ways’; As I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’” Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, while it is said,“Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.”For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief. Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,“As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,”although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.” Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,“Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.”For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience."

Hebrews 4:3: For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. It is we who have believed who are entering that rest.-“This tense is not to be imposed on the places where the proper signification of a word so timed is natural and genuine, as it is in this place. It is here, then, plainly affirmed that believers do here, in this world, enter into rest in their gospel-state.” John Owen, An Exposition of the Epistle to the Hebrews, vol. 4

The context of Heb. 4:3 makes no reference to tribulations and the necessity of perseverance in the midst of trials. Only faith is mentioned in the text as the means by which we (believers as opposed to unbelievers) are entering God’s rest. It is true that Israel in the wilderness experienced tribulation. It is also true that in other passages in Hebrews our pilgrimage in this world is viewed as a time of trial, testing, and tribulation 11:37 But Heb. 3:7–4:11 does not contain any reference to these. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts”. The author of Hebrews applies the exhortation of Ps. 95:7 directly to the new covenant people of God. Because if the old covenant people of God had already entered God’s rest under the leadership of Joshua, then God would not have renewed the offer in David’s day 4:7-9 Therefore, the “promise of entering still stands” v 1 since those who were formerly offered that rest failed to enter it because of unbelief v 6

Read more at from this source: http://www.upper-register.com/papers/rest_hebrews.pdf

“Today” the word of salvation has been announced. “Today” the Son has fulfilled all the shadows of the old covenant. “Today” Christ has justified and sanctified the true spiritual Israel. How will the author’s audience respond? Will they respond in unbelief–an unbelief that returns to the external rituals of the old covenant? Or will they respond in faith. (11:1)?

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

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Matthew 25:1-13

"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

Jesus Christ told this parable about ten virgins who took their burning lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. Friends, they were ten virgins and not five virgins and five whores, harlots, fornicators or adulteresses, so don't let somebody come along and deceive you into believing that five of these ten virgins were never saved to begin with. They were ALL saved at one point in time, but five of them didn't "endure to the end to be saved" by letting their "lamps go out". Friends, their "lamps" couldn't have "gone out" if they hadn't been lit at one point in time. Again, they were "once saved", but certainly not "always saved". In fact, this parable comes directly on the heels of what Jesus had been teaching in relation to His second coming. After mentioning how false Christs would deceive many, how there would be wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes and pestilences, Jesus said:

Matthew 24:11-13

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, THE LOVE OF MANY SHALL WAX COLD. BUT HE THAT SHALL ENDURE TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED."

Friends, one's love cannot "wax" or grow cold unless it was once hot. Additionally, Jesus wouldn't have spoken of the necessity to "endure to the end to be saved" if MANY weren't going to drop out of the race...whether due to deception or due to their love of God growing cold because of abounding iniquity all around them. Friends, again, it matters not if we start right, but we must finish the race. Jesus continued:

Matthew 24:42-51

"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. BUT AND IF THAT EVIL SERVANT SHALL SAY IN HIS HEART, MY LORD DELAYETH HIS COMING; AND SHALL BEGIN TO SMITE HIS FELLOW-SERVANTS, AND TO EAT AND DRINK WITH THE DRUNKEN; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Friends, BOTH the faithful and wise SERVANT and the evil SERVANT were SERVANTS. Yes, friends, they both called Jesus "Lord" and they both looked forward to His second coming. The evil SERVANT, however, began to do evil as his Lord delayed His coming. As such, he didn't endure to the end and he most certainly was not "once saved, always saved". In fact, he was appointed his portion with the hypocrites and wound up in a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. This, friends, is the very introduction to the parable of the ten virgins that we're now examining. IOW, Jesus is still talking about the very same things...namely the need to ENDURE UNTO THE END IN ORDER TO BE SAVED. Again, these ten virgins all started out with lamps which were burning. Only five of the virgins, however, prepared for the long haul in that they also brought with themselves "vessels" in which was found additional "oil" to keep their lamps always burning UNTIL THE END OR UNTIL THEIR BRIDEGROOM RETURNED. All ten of these virgins called Jesus "Lord" and all ten of them were waiting for His return. IOW, they were ALL CHRISTIANS at one point in time, but only five of them ENDURED UNTIL THE END AND WERE SAVED. Even when the cry came that "the bridegroom cometh", these five foolish virgins sought "oil" and even went to those who sell to buy more "oil" for themselves. When they returned from their attempted purchase of such, they returned to find THE DOOR SHUT. Still, they stood outside the door and said, "LORD, LORD, OPEN TO US". Again, they called Jesus "Lord", but didn't have enough "oil" to see themselves through UNTO THE END. In case you don't already know, friends, "oil", in scripture, ofttimes signifies THE HOLY SPIRIT, in type. IOW, as I've already documented in previous posts, it is possible to "do despite to the Spirit of grace" (Heb. 10:29). Jesus followed up this sober warning with another equally as sober warning, when He continued on to say:

Matthew 25:14-30

"For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, WHO CALLED HIS OWN SERVANTS, AND DELIVERED UNTO THEM HIS GOODS. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, AND HID HIS LORD'S MONEY. After a long time THE LORD OF THOSE SERVANTS COMETH, AND RECKONETH WITH THEM. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, LORD, I KNEW THEE THAT THOU ART AN HARD MAN, REAPING WHERE THOU HAST NOT SOWN, AND GATHERING WHERE THOU HAST NOT STRAWED: AND I WAS AFRAID, AND WENT AND HID THY TALENT IN THE EARTH: LO, THERE THOU HAST THAT IS THINE. HIS LORD ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, THOU WICKED AND SLOTHFUL SERVANT, THOU KNEWEST THAT I REAP WHERE I SOWED NOT, AND GATHER WHERE I HAVE NOT STRAWED: THOU OUGHTEST THEREFORE TO HAVE PUT MY MONEY TO THE EXCHANGERS, AND THEN AT MY COMING I SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED MINE OWN WITH USURY. TAKE THEREFORE THE TALENT FROM HIM, AND GIVE IT UNTO HIM WHICH HATH TEN TALENTS. FOR UNTO EVERY ONE THAT HATH SHALL BE GIVEN, AND HE SHALL HAVE ABUNDANCE: BUT FROM HIM THAT HATH NOT SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH. AND CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKNESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

Friends, ALL THREE OF THESE SERVANTS to whom the Lord gave "goods" or "talents" WERE JESUS' SERVANTS AT ONE POINT IN TIME. Yes, friends, Jesus "CALLED HIS OWN SERVANTS, AND DELIVERED UNTO THEM HIS GOODS". Two of THE LORD'S SERVANTS traded with what their Lord had given them and gave it back to Him at His return with "usury" or with interest. Both of these two SERVANTS OF THE LORD were commended for what they had done and ultimately entered into the joy of their Lord. In stark contrast, however, one of THE LORD'S SERVANTS WHO KNEW THAT JESUS REAPED WHERE HE HADN'T PERSONALLY SOWN (IOW, we're supposed to be "occupying until He comes" and sowing in His name with whatever He's given us) AND KNEW THAT JESUS GATHERED WHERE HE HADN'T PERSONALLY STRAWED (Ditto) BURIED WHAT THE LORD HAD GIVEN HIM IN THE GROUND AND SOUGHT TO ONLY GIVE BACK TO THE LORD WHAT HE HAD INITIALLY BEEN GIVEN AT HIS RETURN. Jesus' response? Friends, Jesus DIDN'T tell this SERVANT that he "mistakenly thought" that He was "a hard man", but rather judged him out of his own accurate assessment of the situation. Friends, this SERVANT was stripped of what he had originally been given and thrown into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. IOW, it certainly wasn't an instance of "once saved, always saved", was it? NO, IT WAS NOT! Friends, let my opponent continue to rail against such detailed truths in the Bible and mockingly deride them as "works salvation" or a "man centered salvation". Friends, a covenant is just that:

An agreement between TWO parties.

The Lord has graciously given us all things which pertain to life and godliness and He fully expects us to use them, not only to endure unto the end ourselves, but also to help bring others into the kingdom. If we don't do our parts, then it's not "once saved, always saved", but rather WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH IN OUTER DARKNESS that we can look forward to. Friends, it's no coincidence that Jesus immediately continued to teach of how, at His return, He's going to separate the sheep from the goats BASED UPON WHAT THEY DID OR DID NOT DO. Yes, friends, "wicked, slothful and unprofitable servants", like the one whom we just read about, don't fare well at all before the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 25:41-46

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, DEPART FROM ME, YE CURSED, INTO EVERLASTING FIRE, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. FOR I WAS AN HUNGERED, AND YE GAVE ME NO MEAT: I WAS THIRSTY, AND YE GAVE ME NO DRINK: I WAS A STRANGER, AND YE TOOK ME NOT IN: NAKED, AND YE CLOTHED ME NOT: SICK, AND IN PRISON, AND YE VISITED ME NOT. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prision, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. AND THESE SHALL GO AWAY INTO EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into life eternal."

Going back to the parable of the virgins for a moment, we need to understand that we're presently only "espoused" to the Lord and that the marriage supper of the Lamb has not yet taken place. Friends, we need to be preparing ourselves for this "marriage" in the same manner in which many a natural bride prepares for her own wedding.

Revelation 19:7

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, AND HIS WIFE HATH MADE HERSELF READY."

Contrary to the error which my opponent preaches, this wedding will NOT be "a shotgun wedding"...which is exactly the type of scenario which my opponent describes. You know, where God allegedly "chooses" certain individuals APART FROM THEIR OWN WILLS from the beginning of time to salvation whilst simultaneously "choosing" others for damnation APART FROM THEIR OWN WILLS without any chance whatsoever of responding posiitively to His "marriage proposal" (figuratively speaking) or gospel proclamation. Friends, during our "espousal" period, we can fall away from Christ, if we're not careful. Paul was certainly afraid that such might happen with the Corinthians to whom he ministered. We read:

II Corinthians 11:2-4

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

In this case, as with the Galatians, Paul was afraid that those who once belonged to Christ might embrace "another Jesus", "another spirit" and "another gospel" as was being presented by the Judaizers of his day. Let my opponent quote how Paul addressed the "foolish Galatians" (Gal. 3:1). In so doing, HE'S ONLY PROVING MY POINT. IOW, Paul was concerned that the Galatians who had been "once saved" by grace had now "fallen from grace" (Gal. 5:4). Again, I ask:

Does ANY OF THIS sound like "once saved, always saved" to you?

Friends, "once saved, always saved" is a potentially DAMNABLE HERESY and I'll continue to proclaim as much as long as the Lord gives me breath. Jesus Christ is returning for "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:27). As such, I'll continue to exhort those who "name the name of Christ" to "depart from iniquity" (II Tim. 2:19) and also continue to provoke the same "unto love and good works...and so much more as I see the day approaching" (Heb. 10:25).

My opponent?

Well, he continues to basically tell you that "the fix is in". Of course, since he's not omniscient, he cannot tell you which side of the alleged "fix" you are on. IOW, he cannot tell you whether or not you've been "chosen" to partake in God's "shotgun wedding" for His Son or whether you'll be eternally damned. Seriously, friends, stick with the scriptures, IN CONTEXT. Afterall, it's your very souls which are at stake.

Rebuttal of post 10

"Yes, Jesus' sacrifice is "once for all", BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHY "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" IS A HERESY. As I've already shown, those who have been sanctified or set apart unto God by this "once for all" sacrifice can also "TREAD UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND COUNT THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH THEY WERE SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, AND DO DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE" (Heb. 10:29). And-“So, yes, my opponent is correct in asserting that Christ's sacrifice was truly "once for all", BUT IF THIS "ONCE FOR ALL" SACRIFICE IS TRAMPLED UPON, THEN THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE…”

My opponent implies Jesus’ sacrifice is once for all time but not really. An incoherent argument in violation of the law of non-contradiction.

If believers are lost, God loses more than they do, for he loses his honour, he loses his character for truthfulness, and the glory of his name is tarnished. 1429.468 Charles Spurgeon Charles Spurgeon Quotes

Because of the restriction of character spaces allowed in this debate I cannot reproduce the letter of Jude here, so if you would please open your Bible to Jude and read it here.

Notice he bypasses v1b: “To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ” The called are beloved and KEPT for Jesus Christ.

Vs 4 sets the tone. The point of Jude is to warn of false teachers who turn grace into a license to sin and refuse the Master and Lord Jesus Christ. This letter is not a context of losing one’s salvation. They were being exhorted to earnestly contend for the faith amidst false teaching.

In v5 my opponent attempts to equate God’s deliverance of the Jewish nation from physical bondage in Egypt with God’s salvation of His elect from the bondage of sin through the sacrifice of Christ. This event in history is a picture of spiritual redemption but the Exodus account is not identical to the salvation received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone. My opponent then tries to steer the readers into believing the absurd notion that God destroys (with eternal damnation) unbelieving believers. That for some reason after God enlightens the darkened mind, gives them a new heart that now loves Him and renewed will that desires to fully obey Him, forgiveness of all of their sins, the promise of eternal bliss in paradise, in other words that person is made a totally new creature now reconciled to God (2Cor.5:17-21)-that person would rather give all that back and go to hell.

Like man, angels were originally created with relative righteousness but mutable. It needs to be kept in mind that God has not provided salvation for angels but only the spiritual “seed of Abraham”. Heb.2:16; Gal.3:7,29 To use this false analogy as an example of losing one’s salvation is simply a red-herring logical fallacy irrelevant to the topic of the debate-an attempt to divert attention for lack of a sound argument.

My opponent constructs a straw-man logical fallacy concerning “twice dead” which he then burns with the statement “twice dead” means salvation lost.

“Twice dead; they had been once dead in their natural, fallen state; but now they are dead again by the evident proofs of their hypocrisy. Dead trees, why cumber they the ground! Away with them to the fire.” Matthew Henry Commentary

“Twice dead—In sin, first by nature, and afterwards by apostasy.” John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes

Twice dead; that is, entirely, thoroughly, and really dead in trespasses and sins, notwithstanding their pretensions to religion and godliness; or the sense may be, that they were not only liable to a corporeal death, common to them with all mankind, but also to an eternal one, or to the death both of soul and body in hell. Homer calls those diyaneiv, "twice dead", that go to hell alive: or rather the sense is this, that they were dead in sin by nature, as all men are, and again having made a profession of religion, were now become dead to that profession; and so were twice dead, once as they were born, and a second time as they had apostatized: John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Apostasy: “Fall away”-As a noun (referencing Israel’s falling away) consists in its rejection of the Gospel. 6-p172,173; "This warning is addressed not merely to the Jewish leaders who encompass the death of Jesus but to the whole attitude of rejection which takes offence at the person and claim of Jesus. Falling does not mean becoming guilty; it refers to the possibility that Israel will persist in its guilt, or rather that it will be abandoned by God in its guilt, that it will be excluded from salvation.” 6-p164 Kittel’s TDNT

Not salvation lost but falling away from entering into salvation. Falling short of the gospel command in spite of the clear teaching and examples of the true believing community while living among them and experiencing the irrefutable conviction of the Holy Spirit testifying to the person and work of Christ.

My opponent “cherry-picks” vs3-6, 11, 12 in an attempt to bolster his position when the intention of the author is to exhort; “that you contend earnestly for the faith” Jude is demonstrating in this letter the complete antithesis between believers and unbelievers in Israel’s history.

Next my opponent assumes Balaam was “saved” and a prophet of God. Joshua 13:22 calls him a “qasam” Heb Strong’s 7080-conjurer, diviner. Balaam was one who “seeks omens” Num.24:1 One who counsels to “trespass against the Lord” 31:16 After describing false prophets and false teachers warning that they will exploit many with false words because of greed, Peter gives an account of several judgments that fell on those living ungodly lives (2Peter 2:1-6) Peter speaks of these “ungodly” as “following the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with the voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.” vss 15-16 Balaam displayed the same characteristics as those who were false prophets and teachers, those who were ungodly and unrighteous. Just because a person “speaks forth” God’s will does not guarantee that that person is saved. Was Caiaphas a saved person when “being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation…and planned together to kill Him”? Jn.11:51 Or the “slave girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune telling. Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, ‘These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation.’” Acts 16:16-17 This girl “spoke-forth” God’s truth. Was this girl ever a saved person? No, but demon possessed.-vs 18 Christ speaks of the demise of false professors in the last day-that great day of judgment. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’” I NEVER knew you! It is not that He knew them as sons and lost them. They were not once saved and gave it back. “Knew”: “I have never recognized you. Of God as subject recognize someone as belonging to Him, choose, almost=elect. BAGD p161, 7. 1979 They were never saved. God “put a word in Balaam’s mouth” 23:5, 12, 16 just as “the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey” Num.22:28 Nowhere in Numbers or any other account of Balaam does one get the impression that Balaam lost his salvation but he is pictured as a pagan diviner whom God used to fulfill His purpose.

2Peter 2:1-3
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

My opponent assumes that Jesus purchases with His blood false prophets and false teachers.

Bought-Gr. Agorazo-when used in Scripture has both redemptive and non-redemptive usages.

Master(NASB)/Lord(KJV) Gr. Despotes-absolute ruler, despot towards slaves Strong’s 1203

"But to say that II Peter 2:1 is speaking of Christ lends absolutely no weight to the modified Calvinist position, for it must be established whether despotes can rightly refer in this verse, or any verse for that matter, to Christ as mediator....despotes is used about thirty times in the whole of Scripture-twenty times in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament and ten times in the New Testament. But never does it refer to the Father or the Son as mediator unless II Peter 2:1 be the exception. And if this be the case, the burden of proof rests upon those who wish to make it the exception, does it not?...Rather the dominant use of despotes in both the Old and New Testaments is of God as “absolute sovereign,” that is, as “sovereign Lord” and owner of each member of the human race." Gary Long, Definite Atonement, p.71.

Does 2Peter actually support the position of my opponent that those for whom Christ died can reject their salvation or rather that the Master owns them because He is their sovereign Creator? Can my opponent declare indisputably that the pronoun “them” in 2Peter2:1 refers to the false prophets not to “the people”? (OT Israel who was “purchased” from Egyptian slavery)

"Either:
1. The term is being used redemptively. Hence these were men who were bought by Christ (purchased, redeemed) but lost their salvation when they became apostate.
2. The term is being used non-redemptively; hence Peter is not addressing the extent of the atonement, but is providing an OT example (similar to Deut. 32:5-6) of a sovereign master (despot) who had purchased slaves and on that basis commanded their allegiance. Since Scripture is consistent with itself it would seem that the only viable option is that the text is to be understood non-redemptively. The preservation of the saints is a clearly revealed truth, and is maintained on the basis of Scripture’s teaching on the nature of the atonement (Heb. 7-10), and the resultant preservation of the saints (John 6:37-44). It is our contention, therefore, that a non-redemptive sense is not only consistent with sola scriptura (scripture alone) and tota scriptura (all of scripture), but it is the only sense that is established by the context itself. For when one considers, 1) the problem of ownership, 2) despotes and agorazo contextually defined, and 3) the absence of redemptive and mediatorial features in the very passage under dispute, then one will likewise see that the textual and exegetical data communicates a non-redemptive sense, perfectly consistent with the specificity of the atonement that the Bible so clearly presents." Simon Escobedo III Alpha and Omega Ministries, The Christian Apologetics Ministry of James R. White


If space allows I will address the 2Peter 2:15-22 passage in my next post.

If anybody said he had eternal life and lost it, he would be flatly contradicting himself. It could not be eternal, or else he must still have it. 2120.691 Charles Spurgeon Charles Spurgeon Quotes

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

My argument regarding Jesus' sacrifice is neither incoherent nor contradictory, as my opponent falsely asserts. Jesus has been sacrificed for sin ONCE and He will not be crucified afresh (Heb. 6:6). For those who tread under foot the Son of God by sinning willfully and counting the blood of the covenant wherewith they were sanctified as an unholy thing, thereby doing despite unto the Spirit of grace, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES (Heb. 10:26-31). THIS is what my opponent calls "eternal security" and it is A HERESY.

I haven't bypassed Jude 1, either. We read:

Jude 1

"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ, and called..."

Again, those who were sanctified CAN COUNT THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH THEY WERE SANCTIFIED, AS AN UNHOLY THING AND DO DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE (Heb. 10:29). Having been purchased by this blood, Peter instructs US to pass the time of OUR sojourning here IN FEAR and to not return to OUR former lusts in OUR ignorance as WE'LL ALL face God's judgment (I Pet. 1:14-19).

Also, the Greek word that is translated as "preserved" in Jude 1 is the same word that is translated as "keep" in Jude 21. We read:

Jude 21

"KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

Again, we see that we have a vital part to play IN THIS TWO PARTY COVENANT. Yes, God "is able to keep us from falling" (Jude 24), but WE must "keep ourselves in the love of God" for the love of many will wax cold due to abounding iniquity. As Jesus said, we must endure to the end to be saved (Matt. 24:12-13). If we examine the context of Jude's statement, then this becomes even more apparent. We read:

Jude 17-18

"But, beloved, remember THE WORDS WHICH WERE SPOKEN BEFORE OF THE APOSTLES OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST; HOW THAT THEY TOLD YOU THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, WHO SHOULD WALK AFTER THEIR OWN UNGODLY LUSTS."

Here, Jude is referring to the words of Peter that I outlined in a previous post:

II Peter 3:1-3

"This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, AND OF THE COMMANDMENT OF US THE APOSTLES OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR: KNOWING THIS FIRST, THAT THERE SHALL COME IN THE LAST DAYS SCOFFERS, WALKING AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS."

Whereas the Greek word "empaiktes" is translated as mockers in Jude 18, it is translated as scoffers in II Peter 3:3. In fact, this Greek word only appears twice in the New Testament and it is in these very two passages in which it appears. IOW, both Jude and Peter are talking about the very same things and the very same people. As such, we're not simply left to Jude's words to understand what he is saying, but we can also look to Peter's words for clarity.

II Peter 3:17

"Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, BEWARE LEST YE ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEDFASTNESS."

Peter, LIKE JUDE, was stirring up the pure minds of his hearers to the fact that mockers/scoffers who walked after their own lusts would seek to cause the saints TO FALL FROM THEIR OWN STEDFASTNESS. Did Peter and Jude see such as an IMPOSSIBILITY, as my opponent insists? No, they didn't. If it were IMPOSSIBLE, then neither Peter nor Jude would even be writing such WARNINGS TO CHRISTIANS. As I've already documented, Peter instructed his hearers to "give diligence to make their calling and election sure" (II Pet. 1:10) by "ADDING such things as virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity TO THEIR FAITH" (II Pet. 1:5-7). He said that those who ADD such things and have such things "IN ABUNDANCE SHALL NEVER FALL" (I Pet. 1:8-10). Conversely, he plainly said that those who don't ADD such things are "BLIND AND CANNOT SEE AFAR OFF AND HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT THEY WERE ONCE PURGED FROM THEIR OLD SINS" (I Pet. 1:9). Do "forgotten that they were ONCE PURGED from their old sins" and "falling from their own stedfastness" sound like "eternal security" to you? Again, it's not a "shotgun wedding" and we must "give diligence to make our calling and election sure" (I Pet. 1:10).

Although this debate is anything but humorous in nature, I could scarcely refrain myself from laughing as I read the remainder of my opponent's supposed rebuttal. My opponent ARGUES WITH HIMSELF and actually refutes his own position in his attempted rebuttal of what I've written. For example, there are MANY PROBLEMS with my opponent's assertion that Balaam was never a PROPHET of the Lord. In relation to Balaam, we read such things as:

Numbers 22:8-13

"And he said unto them, Lodge here this night, and I will bring you word again, AS THE LORD SHALL SPEAK UNTO ME: and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam. AND GOD CAME UNTO BALAAM, AND SAID, What men are these with thee? AND BALAAM SAID UNTO GOD, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying, Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out. AND GOD SAID UNTO BALAAM, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed. And Balaam rose up in the morning, and said unto the princes of Balak, Get you into your land: FOR THE LORD REFUSETH TO GIVE ME LEAVE TO GO WITH YOU."

From the very first time that Balaam was inquired of by the king of Moab's messengers until the very last time that he was inquired of by the same, HE SOUGHT THE LORD GOD. As such, don't let my opponent deceive you into believing that Balaam was never saved or was never a true prophet of the LORD.

My opponent also seeks to deceive you in relation to the omens or enchantments which Balaam sought after, as if somehow Balaam was seeking such from false gods. THE SCRIPTURES tell us EXACTLY where Balaam sought such enchantments AND HE SOUGHT THEM FROM THE LORD GOD.

Numbers 24:1

"And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, AS AT OTHER TIMES, TO SEEK FOR ENCHANTMENTS, but he set his face toward the wilderness."

These OTHER TIMES are clearly documented for us IN SCRIPTURE. I've already documented one of these OTHER TIMES in my citing of Numbers 22:8-13 WHERE IT IS CLEARLY SEEN THAT BALAAM SOUGHT THE LORD GOD in order to curse Israel. The other "OTHER TIMES" are exactly the same. Read the account and don't let my opponent deceive you.

My opponent also argues AGAINST HIMSELF, attempting all sorts of scriptural gymnastics in the process, in his comparison between Balaam and the false teachers. We read:

II Peter 2:1-2

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY SHALL FOLLOW THEIR PERNICIOUS WAYS; BY REASON OF WHOM THE WAY OF TRUTH SHALL BE EVIL SPOKEN OF."

These false teachers DENY THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM. Yes, THEY WERE ONCE THE REDEEMED OF THE LORD, but they have since gone on to deny Him. We have even more evidence of this TRUTH, for we read:

II Peter 2:15-16

"WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, FOLLOWING THE WAY OF BALAAM the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb @ss speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of THE PROPHET."

Not only was Balaam once A TRUE PROPHET OF THE LORD, but these false teachers are likened to him in that they, TOO, FORSOOK THE RIGHT WAY AND HAVE GONE ASTRAY. One cannot FORSAKE that of which he was never a part, nor can one GO ASTRAY from that of which he never belonged. Again, these folks were "once saved", but certainly NOT "always saved". Having FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY THEMSELVES AND HAVING GONE ASTRAY, these "twice dead" teachers now seek to lead astray those who were "INDEED ESCAPED FROM THEM WHO LIVE IN ERROR OR THOSE WHO HAD ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST, HAVING ONCE OBEYED THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIVERED UNTO THEM AND HAVING ONCE BEEN WASHED" (II Pet. 2:18-22). If it was impossible for such people to "FALL FROM THEIR OWN STEDFASTNESS" (II Pet. 3:17), then both Peter and Jude wouldn't have been WARNING CHRISTIANS to "BEWARE" (II Pet. 3:17) of such things. Despite such SEVERE WARNINGS AS THESE AND OTHERS, my opponent seeks to deceive you into believing that:
　
And, again:

What NONSENSE.

Peter WARNED of "FALLING FROM YOUR OWN STEDFASTNESS" (II Pet. 3:17) and Paul WARNED of those who had "FALLEN FROM GRACE" (Gal. 5:4).

Let's pause and examine my opponent's underlying Calvinistic beliefs and see how they relate to this debate:

Like the heretic Calvin, my opponent proposes what I've called "a shotgun wedding" in which God allegedly chooses, without any free will decision on the parts of those who comprise the bride of Christ, who will partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb. If such is indeed the case, AND THANK GOD THAT IT ISN'T, then god (I refuse to even capitalize it, as such a god in no way describes the God Whom I faithfully serve) is the most SADISTIC MONSTER imaginable. Consider with me the following:

I Corinthians 10:1-12

"Moreover, brethren, I WOULD NOT THAT YE SHOULD BE IGNORANT, HOW THAT ALL OUR FATHERS WERE UNDER THE CLOUD, AND ALL PASSED THROUGH THE SEA; AND WERE ALL BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES IN THE CLOUD AND IN THE SEA; AND DID ALL EAT THE SAME SPIRITUAL MEAT; AND DID ALL DRINK THE SAME SPIRITUAL DRINK: FOR THEY DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM: AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. NOW ALL THESE THINGS WERE OUR EXAMPLES, TO THE INTENT THAT WE SHOULD NOT LUST AFTER EVIL THINGS, AS THEY ALSO LUSTED. NEITHER BE YE IDOLATERS, AS WERE SOME OF THEM; AS IT IS WRITTEN, THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND ROSE UP TO PLAY. NEITHER LET US COMMIT FORNICATION, AS SOME OF THEM COMMITTED, AND FELL IN ONE DAY THREE AND TWENTY THOUSAND. NEITHER LET US TEMPT CHRIST, AS SOME OF THEM ALSO TEMPTED, AND WERE DESTROYED OF SERPENTS. NEITHER MURMUR YE, AS SOME OF THEM MURMURED, AND WERE DESTROYED OF THE DESTROYER. NOW ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENED UNTO THEM FOR ENSAMPLES: AND THEY ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD ARE COME. WHEREFORE LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL."

My opponent says:

Whereas my opponent would have you to believe that Israel's deliverance from Egypt doesn't equate with God's salvation of His elect from the bondage of sin through the sacrifice of Christ, Paul says the opposite. Paul didn't want THE CHRISTIANS to whom he was writing to be ignorant of the fact that ALL OUR FATHERS WERE BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES, who was a type of Christ, IN THE CLOUD AND IN THE SEA. IOW, they ALL partook of both a SPIRIT (cloud) and WATER (sea) BAPTISM. THEY ALL ALSO ATE THE SAME SPIRITUAL MEAT AND DRANK THE SAME SPIRITUAL DRINK: FOR THEY DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM: AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST! Not only this, but they ALL also placed THE BLOOD OF THE PASSOVER LAMB upon the lintels of their doorposts which typifies REDEMPTION THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST!

What was Paul's intent in reminding his readers of such things? To ensure them/us that we're somehow "once saved, always saved"?

NO!

Paul's intents were JUST THE OPPOSITE. Paul wrote these things to remind US that if WE do the same things (lust after evil things, be idolaters, commit fornication, TEMPT CHRIST, murmur, etc.) that our forefathers have done, then we, too, WILL FALL. "Fall" from what? Having never entered into salvation, as my opponent suggests? NO! FALL FROM SALVATION WHICH HAD ONCE BEEN ENTERED INTO. Friends, these things are OUR examples/ensamples TO THE INTENT THAT WE, CHRISTIANS, SHOULD NOT DO THE SAME THINGS THAT THEY DID AND FALL.

Back to the SADISTIC MONSTER "god" whom my opponent preaches...

The god whom my opponent preaches (listen carefully...this is EXACTLY what my opponent believes) had the Israelites who were overthrown in wrath in the wilderness (because god allegedly chose them for such before the foundation of the world and not because of their willful disobedience) APPLY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB TO THEIR LIVES, BE WATER AND SPIRIT BAPTIZED, EAT SPIRITUAL FOOD AND DRINK SPIRITUAL DRINK OF THE SPIRITUAL ROCK OF CHRIST WHO FOLLOWED THEM and they allegedly NEVER had a chance to be saved to begin with, because the god whom my opponent preaches allegedly chose them to be damned before the world began. IOW, god held the proverbial carrot on a stick before them, but they could NEVER eat it.

Got it?

I reject this carrot on a stick god for THE DEVIL that he is.

Rebuttal of post 13

It would be very beneficial to the audience and to me if you (my opponent) would offer your view of justification and the atonement as our understanding and assertions regarding these components of salvation are vital to the issue of this debate?

It is not only improper to derive Biblical standards from stories intended as illustrations as an aide to interpretation, it is also dangerous to establish doctrine based on parables because parables do not determine or define doctrine. The reason this is dangerous is clearly demonstrated by my opponents importing his presupposition of the insecurity of believers, or perhaps better, the security of believers being dependent upon their own efforts for final justification and therefore not questionable but doomed to failure, into these parables in Matthew 24 and 25. Is that what these parables are illustrating?

Matt.24: 11-13;
As I touched on in earlier posts I fully agree that true believers must endure to the end. Endurance or perseverance to the end is the ultimate proof of one’s salvation. The true test that the spirit of God has applied the blood of Christ to any person’s soul is his being preserved by God to the end. There is absolutely no implication of the loss of salvation anywhere in this example, and therefore irrelevant to this debate.

Matt.25:1-13
My opponent attempts to build another straw-man by manufacturing an argument out of his imagination claiming what would be my interpretation of this parable-he, however, is wildly mistaken. Jesus himself defines the purpose of His illustration. He exhorts his listeners to “Watch” (be prepared) Why? Because no one knows the day or the hour of His return. Many interpreters have seen the word oil as a metaphor of the Holy Spirit. Could be. But to willfully go beyond the clearly defined intended purpose of the parable by Jesus Himself is arrogant, subjective speculation and not how doctrine is objectively established.

Matt.25:14-30; 41-46
It is evident that the interpretation of these parables turn on my opponent’s sole definition of “servant” as meaning a person who has received salvation-a good servant is a saved person who keeps himself saved and an evil/wicked servant is a saved person who loses his salvation. Is this compatible with Scripture’s use of the word? Or as was presented in post 10 God, by virtue of being Sovereign Creator, is Master of everything and everyone, therefore everything and everyone can rightfully be said to serve Him.

The parable of the talents is not difficult to understand if we draw out of the text its meaning and not import our traditions. You can see that there is nothing here regarding salvation or whether a Christian can lose their salvation. So once again for my opponent to use this text as support for the debate topic is a red-herring non-response. The interpretation is simple. As owner and provider of all, God is Lord and Master of all. All therefore are His servants. All owe Him a dutiful debt for what He has provided whether much or little, whether believers or unbelievers. All will give an account of what they were entrusted with as stewards to serve responsibly and faithfully to the Master’s benefit/glory. All will “reap what they sow” Gal.6:7 Those servants who demonstrated a heart of faithful service will reap accordingly and those servants who demonstrated an evil and unwilling heart which knew the Master’s requirements were left “without excuse” and judged accordingly.

Vs26 “But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.

I am reminded of Romans 1:18 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom.9:22-23. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Vessels Strong’s 4632 3a of persons-for the service of God. 3b the subjects of divine wrath Rom 9:22. 3c the subjects of divine mercy Rom 9:23

In all of my opponents arguments there seems to be no place for a lost person who retains his lostness, no place for a false-professor, false-believer, false-teacher or false-prophet who was never redeemed and continues to be only deceived and/or deceivers. This is clear because my opponent would have to give a rational explanation as to how one of God’s Elect/Chosen can un-choose himself. How one who has been placed “in Christ” can remove himself from being in that God-given relationship;

Eph.1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Pledge (NASB) earnest (KJV)-a down payment guaranteeing the completion of the transaction ie “the redemption of God’s own possession”

How can one contend that one has the power of will (choosing to lose their salvation or choosing to sin it away) to defeat God in what He has declared in this text?

As this debate has progressed I have shown that my opponent has indeed promoted a version of the Christian faith which depends on man’s self-effort to persevere to the end in order that he may finally obtain salvation. This error stems from the failure to discern the true gospel of Christ at the starting point of his theology. This is works-righteousness AKA Legalism. A brief exposition of the letter of Paul to the Galatians will shed light upon this sub-biblical teaching.

3:1 "You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law or by hearing with faith. 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain— if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” 11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” 12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

FAITH and WORKS are antithetical in our standing before God. The foundation of our JUSTIFICATION is the imputed righteousness of Christ (reckoned in our union with Him in His substitutionary sacrifice) through the instrument of the gift of faith. This is by God’s grace not by the works of the law. This justification is not only an initiatory act but includes the guarantee of sanctification (final perseverance) as well.-3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" perfected-Gr. epiteleo-accomplish perfectly, to carry out a thing to the full end. Strong’s 1909, 2005, 5055

17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.
21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Rom.3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Rom.5: 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. 3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. 6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Rom.6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

Contrary to the latest false assertions of my opponent, my Biblical standards and doctrines haven't merely been derived or defined from parables, but rather have only been supported by such, even as my opponent admits that they should be. IOW, as my previous posts attest, I've gone to great lengths to establish such Biblical standards and doctrines from Hebrews, II Peter, Romans, I Corinthians, Galatians, etc., etc., so don't let my opponent deceive you. Furthermore, not only did Jesus end His parables with "He who has ears to hear, let him hear", thereby indicating that His parables are very useful to those who can actually discern what the Spirit of God is saying, but He also told His disciples that the parable of the sower was the key to understanding all of His parables. We read:

Mark 4:13

"And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?"

As Jesus indicated, a proper understanding of the parable of the sower is vital to properly understanding all of Jesus' parables. As such, I'll let JESUS CHRIST give us the proper interpretation of the same:

Luke 8:11-15

"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, WHEN THEY HEAR, RECEIVE THE WORD WITH JOY; AND THESE HAVE NO ROOT, WHICH FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, AND IN TIME OF TEMPTATION FALL AWAY. AND THAT WHICH FELL AMONG THORNS ARE THEY, WHICH, WHEN THEY HAVE HEARD, GO FORTH, AND ARE CHOKED WITH CARES AND RICHES AND PLEASURES OF THIS LIFE, AND BRING NO FRUIT TO PERFECTION. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, KEEP IT, AND BRING FORTH FRUIT WITH PATIENCE."

Friends, those on the rock RECEIVED THE WORD WITH JOY and not only BELIEVED FOR A WHILE, but also ENDURED FOR A WHILE (Matthew 13:21, Mark 4:17). IOW, they were "once saved", but NOT "always saved". Yes, friends, "when tribulation, affliction or persecution arose because of the word's sake" (Matt. 13:21, Mark 4:17), they were offended AND FELL AWAY AND DID NOT ENDURE UNTO THE END TO BE SAVED. Friends, again, one cannot "fall away" from that of which he/she was never truly a part.

Similarly, those among thorns SPRUNG UP (Matthew 13:5, Mark 4:5) and WENT FORTH, but the cares of this world choked THAT WHICH WAS GROWING and no fruit was borne unto perfection. Friends, in order to "endure unto the end and be saved" we must KEEP THE WORD AND BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO PERFECTION WITH PATIENCE. THIS is what JESUS CHRIST taught and THIS is what I believe.

Hear another parable:

Matthew 18:21-35

"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, WHICH OWED HIM TEN THOUSAND TALENTS. BUT FORASMUCH AS HE HAD NOT TO PAY, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, AND PAYMENT TO BE MADE. THE SERVANT THEREFORE FELL DOWN, AND WORSHIPPED HIM, SAYING, LORD, HAVE PATIENCE WITH ME, AND I WILL PAY THEE ALL. THEN THE LORD OF THAT SERVANT WAS MOVED WITH COMPASSION, AND LOOSED HIM, AND FORGAVE HIM THE DEBT. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow-servants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid his hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellow-servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellow-servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. THEN HIS LORD, AFTER THAT HE HAD CALLED HIM, SAID UNTO HIM, O THOU WICKED SERVANT, I FORGAVE THEE ALL THAT DEBT, BECAUSE THOU DESIREDST ME: SHOULDEST NOT THOU ALSO HAVE HAD COMPASSION ON THY FELLOW-SERVANT, EVEN AS I HAD PITY ON THEE? AND HIS LORD WAS WROTH, AND DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORMENTORS, TILL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE UNTO HIM. SO LIKEWISE SHALL MY HEAVENLY FATHER DO ALSO UNTO YOU, IF YE FROM YOUR HEARTS FORGIVE NOT EVERY ONE HIS BROTHER THEIR TRESPASSES."

Friends, c'mon...does this REALLY need to be interpreted for you? Here is A SERVANT WHO HAD BEEN LOOSED/FORGIVEN OF HIS DEBT BY HIS COMPASSIONATE/PITIFUL LORD. IOW, he was "once saved". He wasn't "always saved", though, was he? NO, HE WAS NOT! This "once saved servant" LATER refused to forgive a fellow-servant from his heart and HIS LORD WAS WROTH AND DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORMENTORS TILL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE UNTO HIM. IOW, THE DEBT WHICH HE ONCE OWED HIS LORD WAS REINSTATED! Does this sound like "once saved, always saved" to you? Friends, it is possible to lose our forgiveness, even as JESUS CHRIST taught us in the Lord's Prayer. We read:

Matthew 6:12-15

"AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS, AS WE FORGIVE OUR DEBTORS. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. FOR IF YE FORGIVE MEN THEIR TRESPASSES, YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER WILL ALSO FORGIVE YOU: BUT IF YE FORGIVE NOT MEN THEIR TRESPASSES, NEITHER WILL YOUR FATHER FORGIVE YOUR TRESPASSES."

Friends, again, THIS SERVANT OF THE LORD WAS ONCE FORGIVEN OF HIS DEBT BY HIS COMPASSIONATE/PITIFUL LORD ONLY TO HAVE HIS DEBT REINSTATED BECAUSE HE LATER REFUSED TO FORGIVE A FELLOW-SERVANT. Friends, as I've said before and as I will maintain until my dying breath, "once saved, always saved" is not only A HERESY, but a potentially DAMNABLE HERESY in that it could possibly cause one's heart to "be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" (Heb. 3:13) and possibly cause one to "depart from the living God" with "an evil heart of unbelief" (Heb. 3:12).

In relation to Matthew 24:11-13, my opponent erroneously says:

Friends, backing up just a couple of verses to get the proper context, we read:

Matthew 24:9-13

"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. AND THEN SHALL MANY BE OFFENDED, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. AND BECAUSE INIQUITY SHALL ABOUND, THE LOVE OF MANY SHALL WAX COLD. BUT HE THAT SHALL ENDURE UNTO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED."

Friends, it's the same scenario that we just read about in the parable of the sower. Yes, friends, there are those who will BELIEVE FOR A WHILE AND ENDURE FOR A WHILE, but who will be unable to ENDURE UNTO THE END AND BE SAVED because they will be OFFENDED by the amount of persecution they will face for the Word's sake AND THEIR LOVE OF GOD (AGAPE) WILL WAX OR GROW COLD. Friends, it is that which is initially HOT that WAXES OR GROWS COLD, so, once again, don't let my opponent deceive you. Again, as JESUS CHRIST taught in Luke 14:26-35, it is NOT ENOUGH to "lay the foundation" (and no other foundation can be laid than JESUS CHRIST - I Cor. 3:11) AND THEN NOT BE ABLE TO FINISH WHAT WAS STARTED. Similarly, JESUS CHRIST also warned of how "salt that has LOST ITS SAVOUR" isn't even "fit for the dunghill", but is "CAST OUT". Friends, why did JESUS CHRIST warn about "SALT LOSING ITS SAVOUR" if such isn't even possible, as my opponent erroneously maintains? Friends, JESUS CHRIST is NOT a proponent of "once saved, always saved" and you'd be a fool to believe contrary to HIS TEACHINGS.

Additionally, and contrary to the wild assertions of my opponent, my comments in relation to the parable of the virgins are anything but "arrogant, subjective speculations". As my opponent hesitantly acknowledges himself, the term "oil" is ofttimes used in relation to THE HOLY SPIRIT in scripture and such is clearly the case in this particular parable. Again, the VIRGINS (not whores, harlots, adulteresses or fornicators) all INITIALLY (once saved) had OIL IN THEIR VESSELS and the five foolish virgins allowed their OIL to run out and, consequently, their lamps stopped burning (NOT always saved). Also, they were ALL awaiting the Bridegroom's return and they even went to purchase more OIL when they heard the call that the Bridegroom was returning, only to ultimately find THE DOOR SHUT TO THEM (again, NOT always saved). Friends, we ALL KNOW what this parable is genuinely about, so let's neither delude ourselves nor allow ourselves to be deceived by those who TRULY "import their presuppositions" into their scripture reading and then falsely accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of. Additionally, and in relation to this very parable, my opponent states:

Although it is true that Jesus repeatedly instructed His hearers to "Watch", my opponent fails to understand the significance of such...especially in relation to this very debate. Elsewhere, in relation to "Watching", Jesus said:

Revelation 16:15

"Behold, I come as a thief. BLESSED IS HE THAT WATCHETH, AND KEEPETH HIS GARMENTS, LEST HE WALK NAKED, AND THEY SEE HIS SHAME."

Friends, these words were uttered by JESUS CHRIST between the timeframe of the sixth and seventh vials of the wrath of God being poured out. Yes, friends, Christ hadn't yet returned as "a thief in the night", so if you're believing in the other HERESY regarding an alleged "pre-tribulation rapture", then you'd be wise to forsake that HERESY as well. Anyhow, JESUS CHRIST not only said that we should "Watch", but also that WE MUST KEEP OUR GARMENTS, LEST WE WALK NAKED, AND OTHERS SEE OUR SHAME. Again, friends, we ALL know why JESUS CHRIST said such things:

BECAUSE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SOIL OUR GARMENTS AND TO BE FOUND TO BE NAKED BEFORE HIM ON THAT GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY.

Yes, friends, as Christians, we're instructed to "keep ourselves in the love of God" (Jude 21) or to not let our love of God "wax cold" (Matt. 24:12) and we're also instructed to "hate even the garment spotted by the flesh" (Jude 23). Jesus Christ is coming back for a bride "not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:27). As such, the Lamb's "wife must make herself ready" (Rev. 19:7) if she wants to partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb. As I said before, it won't be the "shotgun wedding" that my opponent preaches, but we have a vital part to play in this TWO PARTY COVENANT which is likened to A MARRIAGE all throughout scripture.

My opponent also erroneously believes the following to be "evident":

Despite my opponent's erroneous claim that "everything and everyone can rightfully be said to serve Him (God)", we read such Biblical truths as the following:

Joshua 24:15

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YE WILL SERVE; WHETHER THE GODS WHICH YOUR FATHERS SERVED THAT WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FLOOD, OR THE GODS OF THE AMORITES, IN WHOSE LAND YE DWELL: BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD."

C'mon, friends! How many of us have a placard of some sort which bears this very portion of scripture upon it and adorns a wall in our very own homes? Joshua, who "wholly followed the LORD" (Num. 32:12, Josh. 14:8-9), KNEW FULL WELL, AS DO WE, that he and others HAD TO CHOOSE which God/god THEY WOULD SERVE, so for my opponent to suggest that all are automatically God's servants is LUDICROUS, to say the least. Yes, friends, being guilty of the very thing of which he falsely accuses me, my opponent's own "IMPORTED PRESUPPOSITIONS" hinder him from seeing what is plainly revealed for others IN SCRIPTURE. Additionally, in the parable itself, JESUS CHRIST makes a CLEAR DISTINCTION between His servants and the "citizens who hated him" (Luke 19:14). Yes, friends, JESUS' SERVANTS were those to whom He had given His talents and those whom He had told to "Occupy till He comes" (Luke 19:13). JESUS went on to explain how one of HIS SERVANTS, the one who had buried what HIS LORD had given him to trade with in a napkin in the earth, ULTIMATELY HAD WHAT HIS LORD HAD INITIALLY GIVEN HIM TO TRADE WITH TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM. Again, friends, we ALL know what this means, so let's neither delude ourselves nor allow ourselves to be deceived by others. Also, friends, don't miss the implications of my opponent's latest errors. IOW, while insisting that we are ALL God's servants, my opponent simultaneously insists that "god" CHOSE, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, SOME OF THESE SAID "SERVANTS" TO BE VESSELS OF HIS WRATH, WITHOUT EVER HAVING HAD ANY CHANCE TO RESPOND POSITIVELY TO THE GOSPEL MESSAGE WHICH WAS REPEATEDLY HELD BEFORE THEM BY MY OPPONENT'S "CARROT ON A STICK "god"!

Yes, friends, my opponent's "god" is the most SADISTIC MONSTER ever preached in that he (I refuse to capitalize it) repeatedly held before "the vessels of wrath" that which was never truly available to them...according to my opponent's repeated errors, that is.

Well, that's all of the allotted space that I have. Lord willing, I'll address such terms as "election" and "predestination" in my next response.

Towards the end of post 13 my opponent exposes another fatal flaw in his theology:

“Friends, let my opponent continue to rail against such detailed truths in the Bible and mockingly deride them as "works salvation" or a "man centered salvation". Friends, a covenant is just that: An agreement between TWO parties.”

He confuses or co-mingles the Old Covenant with the New. What makes the New Covenant New and Better is that Christ, the “second Adam”, stands as representative of all His children in the fulfillment of the first covenant and that His righteousness (His perfect obedience to the law of that Old Covenant) is imputed to us so that now (as always) it is by faith in Him, not our perfect obedience (which is impossible) required by the law, that justifies.

My opponent has lost sight of Christ as MEDIATOR. He not only takes upon himself but requires all to set aside Christ for self-effort. Instead of justification through faith producing works he insists in works producing justification that fulfills the requirements of the Covenant. “Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.” Gal.3:16 The one Covenant of Grace comes to us solely through our union with Christ. Not in our merits. But only “in Him”.

It has become increasingly more evident, in the course of this debate, that my opponent places his confidence in attaining the approval of God that will finally consummate in his acceptance into the heavenly kingdom, by maintaining a faithful Christian life through the performance of “good works” to the end.

In quoting Hebrews 5:8-9 he says “Jesus Christ is the author of ETERNAL SALVATION unto all them that OBEY HIM, friends.” He writes we are to “OBEY HIM” but sees and believes that to mean we must “OBEY” the “LAW”. On the contrary, in the soteriological context, to obey Him is the obedience of FAITH.

Rom.1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ.

16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; 27to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen

Jn.6:28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

As for the humanistic system that attempts to achieve acceptance before God through maintaining one’s salvation to the end by means of one’s autonomous freewill producing the good works demanded by the Law:

“It is powerless to deliver from sin (Rom 8:3; Gal 3:21b-22) and was a temporary measure until the coming of Christ (Gal 3:19). Moreover, continued attachment to it is not only fruitless, but dangerous since the law demands total obedience of which none is capable (Gal 3:10-12). Law observance is thus both futile and fatal. As a substitute for or supplement to faith in Christ it ministers to legalism. Acceptance by God is possible only through faith in Christ crucified (Rom 8:3; Gal 2:16; 3:13-14)…While Paul's use of the term "works" exhibits a wide range of meaning from good to bad (see the double use in Eph 2:8-10), the significant phrase "the works of the law" often stands in explicit contrast with faith in Christ as the means of salvation (Rom 3:20-22, 28; Gal 2:16; 3:2, 5, 10). It is noteworthy that in several of these contexts the idea of boasting is also present (Rom 3:27; Gal 2:20a; 6:13). These examples seem best taken to mean legal works, that is, works done to commend the doer to God. As holding out the hope of salvation on the basis of human effort, such works are the antithesis of God's saving grace set forth in Christ crucified. Confidence in him alone, who, by his death fulfilled the law, is the sole means of deliverance from the law's demands, and so of avoiding legalism.” Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology

Acts 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.” 6The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. 7After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

The premise asserted by my opponent that a true Christian can lose his salvation is based upon his presupposition of legalism which is in direct conflict with the gospel of the grace of God in Christ Jesus. Every argument he has presented elevates the ability of man to effect the accomplishment of his own perseverance to the end. I have debated Atheists and I have debated self-proclaimed Apostates and I have debated Synergists and they all have one darling in common that is-the “Golden Idol of Freewill” Augustus Toplady penned an article with this title: Arminianism: The Golden Idol of Free-will by Augustus Toplady You may know him better by his hymns:

A Debtor to Mercy Alone

A debtor to mercy alone, of covenant mercy I sing;
Nor fear, with Thy righteousness on, my person and off’ring to bring.

The terrors of law and of God with me can have nothing to do;
My Savior’s obedience and blood hide all my transgressions from view.

The work which His goodness began, the arm of His strength will complete;
His promise is Yea and Amen, and never was forfeited yet.

Things future, nor things that are now, nor all things below or above,
Can make Him His purpose forgo, or sever my soul from His love.

My name from the palms of His hands eternity will not erase;
Impressed on His heart it remains, in marks of indelible grace.

Yes, I to the end shall endure, as sure as the earnest is giv’n;
More happy, but not more secure, the glorified spirits in Heav’n.

Of course you know:

Rock of Ages

Rock of Ages, cleft for me, Let me hide myself in Thee;

Let the water and the blood, From Thy wounded side which flowed,

Be of sin the double cure; Save from wrath and make me pure.

Not the labor of my hands Can fulfill Thy law’s demands;

Could my zeal no respite know, Could my tears forever flow,

All for sin could not atone; Thou must save, and Thou alone.

Nothing in my hand I bring, Simply to the cross I cling;

Naked, come to Thee for dress; Helpless look to Thee for grace;

Foul, I to the fountain fly; Wash me, Savior, or I die.

While I draw this fleeting breath, When mine eyes shall close in death, [originally When my eye-strings break in death]

When I soar to worlds unknown, See Thee on Thy judgment throne,

Rock of Ages, cleft for me, Let me hide myself in Thee.

My opponent “knows” these hymns but he certainly cannot sing either of them and be consistent for they flatly refute and fly in the face of his belief system.

These hymns rightly reflect the sovereign grace of God in the salvation of sinners “to the praise of His glorious grace.”

That humanistic system that trusts in man’s innate goodness-having retained the ability in the natural (unregenerate) state to choose between two morally contradictory options (good or evil, right or wrong)-bases that assertion in human reasoning that refuses to accept the verdict of God’s revealed judgment of it in Scripture.

“The mind, swelled with self-conceit, says, the man should not stoop; the will, opposite to the will of God, says, he will not; and the corrupt affections, rising against the Lord, in defense of the corrupt will, say, he shall not. Thus the poor creature stands out against God and goodness, till a day of power comes, in which he is made a new creature.” Thomas Boston-The Sinfulness of Man’s Natural State "The Sinfulness of Man's Natural State" (Corruption of the Affections, Concience, Memory and Body) by Thomas Boston

That line in Rock of Ages: “Be of sin the double cure; Save from wrath and make me pure.” is the distinction found, in the redemption accomplished by Christ, of Justification (“Save from wrath”) and Sanctification (“Make me pure”). All that is required by God’s justice for the final salvation of His sheep is found “in Him” This “double cure” is also referred to as the “two-fold” grace of God.

“Man being at first created upright, but afterwards being not partially but totally ruined, finds his entire salvation out of himself in Christ, to whom being united by the Holy Spirit freely given without any foresight of future works, he thereby obtains a double blessing, viz., full imputation of righteousness, which goes along with us even to the grave, and the commencement of sanctification, which daily advances till at length it is perfected in the day of regeneration or resurrection of the body, and this, in order that the great mercy of God may be celebrated in the heavenly mansions, throughout eternity.” Calvin’s Institute Book 1 Sec IV

This two-fold grace or “double cure” of justification and sanctification – faith and repentance – are two distinct sides of the same coin of salvation-distinct but inseparable, freely given “in Christ” as the only sufficient means of redemption. My opponent misunderstands and blends these resulting in the error of works-righteousness and the accompanying loss of peace and rest and assurance.

When one merges sanctification with justification or repentance with faith so that man’s good works faithfully performed to the end are the meritorious cause of salvation, the inevitable result is a turning away from the gospel, doing despite to the Holy Spirit of grace, and falling into the error of legalism. I use repentance and sanctification as synonyms in this context in that they both are a turning away from sin and self and a turning toward God in faith and gratitude to a new life of love and obedience.

1Cor.1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption.

1Thess.5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

Titus2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Titus3:4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.

“Here the grace of God is practically personified in its work to bring believers to spiritual maturity in keeping with the character of God and the very essence of His saving work in Christ. But how does the appearance of the grace that brings salvation train and correct us? By the very purposes of salvation that are seen in the coming of Christ and His death for sin. The apostle highlights this in verse 14, “He gave himself for us to (literally, “in order to”) set us free from every kind of lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are truly his, who are eager to do good.” In addition, one should also consider Hebrews 2:14 and 1 John 3:5 and 8” J. Hampton Keathley111 The Foundation, Means, and Motivation for Godly Behavior (Titus 2:11-15) | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

If you are justified your sanctification is being accomplished as a certain result of God’s eternal plan.

__________________
"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin

Let's talk about election and predestination...

Isaiah 42:1-4

"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; MINE ELECT, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law."

Here, the prophet Isaiah CLEARLY IDENTIFIES JESUS CHRIST AS GOD'S ELECT. Compare what Isaiah said to Matthew's interpretation of the same in Matthew 12:14-21 and you will see that both of them referred to JESUS CHRIST as God's ELECT or CHOSEN. Yes, friends, JESUS CHRIST is the One Who was CHOSEN as God's ELECT from before the foundation of the world. Our election or choosing is CONDITIONAL upon our abiding and remaining IN HIM. IOW, God did NOT choose or elect any of us, per se. Rather, HE CHOSE CHRIST and all of those who are ultimately found to be IN HIM are therefore "chosen IN HIM" (Eph. 1:4). There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between what my opponent is saying and what the scriptures actually teach. Look at some of my opponent's statements from his opening post and hopefully you will see what I'm saying:
　
My opponent, in his persistent error, has US as having been CHOSEN, UNCONDITIONALLY, NO LESS, before the foundation of the world or "in eternity past" whereas the scriptures have JESUS CHRIST as having been CHOSEN or ELECTED. Again, our own election hinders directly upon whether or not we abide and remain in GOD'S CHOSEN OR ELECTED ONE, JESUS CHRIST. My opponent asks for a rational explanation of how one can "un-choose" himself? Well, for starters, we were NEVER chosen to begin with...at least not in the manner in which he erroneously insists that we were. Again, JESUS CHRIST IS GOD'S CHOSEN ONE OR ELECTED ONE and it is only those who abide and remain in Him who will ultimately be a part of God's elect "IN CHRIST". How can one "un-choose" or "un-elect" himself in this manner? Easily. Walk away from Christ and stop abiding IN HIM. What's "irrational" about that? Nothing.

Consider Noah's ark in relation to such terms as elected/chosen and predestination:

Noah's ark was God's elected or chosen means of salvation from the raging flood waters.

Noah's ark was predestinated by God to rise above the flood waters and to ultimately come to rest upon the mountains of Ararat.

Who/what determined who was upon the ark?

Did God, WHO IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS (I Pet. 1:17), arbitrarily choose, before the foundation of the world, as my opponent would have us to believe, who would be saved from this disaster and who would perish?

Friends, God's Spirit had been striving with ALL MEN up until the time of the flood:

Genesis 6:3

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

God had been striving with ALL MEN up until this point and He was STILL giving man another 120 years to repent before He brought the flood upon the earth. Noah was "a preacher of righteousness", wasn't he? Who do you suppose that he was preaching to and Who called him to such and for what desired end?

II Peter 2:5

"And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, A PREACHER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly..."

Continuing on in relation to the flood, we read:

II Peter 3:5-9

"For this THEY WILLINGLY ARE IGNORANT OF, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promises, as some men count slackness; BUT IS LONGSUFFERING TO US-WARD, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE."

Even in Peter's day there were those who were WILLINGLY IGNORANT. Well, not in my opponent's book they weren't..seeing how he denies that man even has free will and insists, rather, that we're some sort of robots who were pre-programmed by God before the foundation of the world. Also, we clearly see how that God is "NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE". Of course, my opponent seeks to hoodwink you into believing the exact opposite. Yes, friends, my opponent would have you to believe that it is "god" who actually predestined or chose or willed certain folks (the majority, no less) to his WRATHFUL DESTRUCTION, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, never having had the opportunity (according to his heresy) to respond positively to the gospel message that this "carrot on a stick god" was constantly waving in front of their faces.

Friends, this is what my opponent believes:

1. That "god" ABDUCTED his son's bride, WITHOUT HER WILLFUL CONSENT, AND FORCED HER to betroth him (SHOTGUN WEDDING!).

2. That "god" IMPLANTED his son's SEED into said bride, WITHOUT HER CONSENT (FORCIBLE RAPE!).

3. That "god" FORCES said bride, WITHOUT HER CONSENT, to remain betrothed to his son and to never depart (IMPRISONMENT!).

This sounds like one of those HEINOUS CRIMES that we hear about on the news and my opponent calls this "the gospel"?!? Friends, place this SADISTIC MONSTER "god" on trial in any court of law across the globe and this ABDUCTING, IMPRISONING, RAPIST "god" would be sent to jail...EXACTLY WHERE HE BELONGS! This, sad to say, is exactly the "god" whom my opponent preaches to you.

Back to Noah:

God strove with ALL OF MANKIND, VIA HIS SPIRIT, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.

Noah aided God in His desired will and was a preacher of righteousness to the very same people whom God desired would repent and be saved.

Noah's ark was God's ELECTED or CHOSEN means of salvation.

Noah's ark was PREDESTINATED to rise above the flood waters and to rest upon the mountains of Ararat.

Now, to Jesus Christ:

God strives with ALL OF MANKIND, VIA HIS SPIRIT, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.

I Timothy 2:1-6

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. FOR THIS IS GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD OUR SAVIOUR; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS; WHO GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME."

What we've just read does NOT describe the "god" whom my opponent preaches. No, the "god" whom my opponent preaches PREDESTINES MULTITUDES OF PEOPLE TO ETERNAL DAMNATION BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That "god", friends, is NOT the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ gave Himself A RANSOM FOR ALL, but my opponent, in his persistent error, has to change that to read "a ransom for all OF THE ELECT", with "elect" meaning those whom God allegedly arbitrarily chose to such before the foundation of the world. That's heresy, friends...plain and simple. WE must "give diligence to make our calling and election sure" (II Pet. 1:10), even as Peter preached and even as I've already documented in previous posts. Again, Christ is God's ELECT and those who abide and remain in Him will be part of God's "elect IN HIM". It's not that complicated, friends.

As with Noah, WE, TODAY, aid God in His desired will and are preachers of righteousness to ALL whom God desires to repent and to be saved.

As with Noah's ark, JESUS CHRIST is God's ELECTED or CHOSEN means of salvation and the offer to "come aboard" is given to ALL MEN.

As with Noah's ark, JESUS CHRIST was PREDESTINATED to rise from the dead and to be seated far above all principality and power and dominion and might. Those of us who abide AND REMAIN IN HIM are seated in exactly the same place.

Regarding calling and election or choosing, we read:

Matthew 22:1-14

"And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, AND SENT FORTH HIS SERVANTS TO CALL THEM THAT WERE BIDDEN TO THE WEDDING: AND THEY WOULD NOT COME. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, TELL THEM THAT ARE BIDDEN, BEHOLD, I HAVE PREPARED MY DINNER; MY OXEN AND MY FATLINGS ARE KILLED, AND ALL THINGS ARE READY: COME UNTO THE MARRIAGE. BUT THEY MADE LIGHT OF IT, AND WENT THEIR WAYS, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. BUT WHEN THE KING HEARD THEREOF, HE WAS WROTH: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. THEN SAITH HE TO HIS SERVANTS, THE WEDDING IS READY, BUT THEY WHICH WERE BIDDEN WERE NOT WORTHY. Go ye therefore into the highways, AND AS MANY AS YE SHALL FIND, BID TO THE MARRIAGE. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. FOR MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN."

We ALL know what this parable is about, don't we? The King Who is making a marriage for His Son is God the Father and His Son is Jesus Christ. The servants whom God sent forth were His prophets and they bid the Jewish people to the wedding BUT MANY OF THEM WOULD NOT COME. WOULD NOT COME!...NOT "COULD NOT COME"! IOW, as we see all throughout scripture, these people exercised their God-given FREE WILL and CHOSE TO REJECT CHRIST! Even after this WILLFUL REFUSAL, GOD, WHO IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, sent forth additional servants and still bid them to come to the wedding. Of course, the SADISTIC MONSTER "god" whom my opponent preaches bids such folks to a wedding of which they could never actually partake, having allegedly been predestinated or chosen TO "god's" ETERNAL WRATH FROM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Also, we see that God's wrath got kindled AFTER THEY WILLFULLY REFUSED HIS WEDDING INVITATION AND NOT BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD as my opponent would have us to believe. After most of Israel's WILLFUL REFUSAL, God sent His servants TO BID EVERYONE TO THE MARRIAGE. Again, if you follow my opponent's beliefs to their inevitable conclusion, then we must deduce that this SADISTIC MONSTER, CARROT ON A STICK WAVING "god" was inviting many such people to a wedding of which they could never actually partake, having been predestinated or chosen TO HIS ETERNAL WRATH BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Finally, we see how that a guest showed up without a wedding garment and was ultimately thrust out into outer darkness. Friends, as I've already documented, the bride must "MAKE HERSELF READY" (Rev. 19:7), even as any natural bride does the same today. In fact, I'm going (Lord willing) to my nephew's wedding next Saturday and his fiancee has been "making herself ready" for her wedding day FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS SINCE SHE AND MY NEPHEW GOT ENGAGED. My opponent's "god" requires no such preparation. No, he just ABDUCTS, RAPES AND IMPRISONS...no WILLFUL participation or preparation required on our parts at all. Contrariwise, we see how truly "MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN". Go back and reread the account and reread your entire Bible while you're at it. If you do, then you will easily see how such choosing IS TOTALLY RELIANT UPON HOW WE WILLFULLY RESPOND TO GOD'S CALL TO THE MARRIAGE OF HIS SON.

Joshua 24:15

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YE WILL SERVE; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD."

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

One note on election: He hath chosen US in him before the foundation of the world… Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children Eph.1:4-5

From the moment we are saved we possess: ETERNAL life given by the ETERNAL God who is the source of ETERNAL salvation who out of His EVERLASTING mercy promises an EVERLASTING covenant of ETERNAL redemption saving from the EVERLASTING punishment of ETERNAL damnation according to His ETERNAL purpose imputing EVERLASTING righteousness as an ETERNAL inheritance.

Then why the exhortations, admonishments, and warnings to believers?

This question must be given a logical and thoroughly Biblical explanation in order to decide the outcome of this debate. So must my opponent give an explanation (beyond “begging the question”-It can’t mean that because a Christian can lose their salvation) for the overwhelming testimony of God’s preservation of His purchased possession.

Herman Bavinck 1854-1921 in his Reformed Dogmatics vol.4 states:

"Now the question with respect to this doctrine of perseverance is not whether those who have obtained a true saving faith could not, if left to themselves, lose it again by their own fault and sins: nor whether sometimes all the activity, boldness, and comfort of faith actually ceases, and faith itself goes into hiding under the cares of life and the delights of the world. The question is whether God upholds, continues, and completes the work of grace he has begun, or whether he sometimes permits it to be totally ruined by the power of sin...[Perseverance] is a gift of God. He watches over it and sees to it that the work of grace is continued and completed. He does not, however, do this apart from believers but through them. In regeneration and faith, he grants a grace that as such bears an inadmissible character; he grants a life that is by nature eternal; he bestows the benefits of calling, justification, and glorification that are mutually and unbreakably interconnected. All of the above-mentioned admonitions and threats that Scripture addresses to believers, therefore, do not prove a thing against the doctrine of perseverance. They are rather the way in which God himself confirms his promise and gift through believers. They are the MEANS by which perseverance in life is realized. After all, perseverance is also not coercive but, as a gift of God, impacts humans in a spiritual manner. It is precisely God's will, by admonition and warning, morally to lead believers to heavenly blessedness and by the grace of the Holy Spirit to prompt them willingly to persevere in faith and love. It is therefore completely mistaken to reason from the admonitions of Holy Scripture to the possibility of a total loss of grace. This conclusion is illegimate as when, in the case of Christ, people infer from his temptation that he was able to sin. The certainty of the outcome does not render the MEANS superfluous but is inseparably connected with them in the decree of God. Paul knew with certainty that in the case of shipwreck no one would lose one's life, yet he declares, 'Unless these men stay in the ship, you cannot be saved.' (Acts 27:22, 31)" (pp. 267-68)

No one can know with unmistaken certainty a professing Christian’s true spiritual condition and so we are exhorted to warn all of apostasy. Likewise, because of self-deception, we cannot infallibly know our own hearts and so we must take warning, examining ourselves, endeavoring to fulfill our duties in love to our Lord until we are received into the heavenly kingdom “so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end” Heb.6:11 “since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus” Heb.10:19 with a “sincere heart in full assurance of faith” Heb.10:22 we can “hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful” Heb.10:23 “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.” Heb.10:36

Let’s look again at my opponent’s claim that Galatians supports his argument.

1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

6:9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

My opponent focuses on parts of sentences within Galatians as evidence that a Christian can therefore lose his salvation:

DESERTING Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel

therefore KEEP STANDING FIRM

YOU HAVE BEEN SEVERED FROM CHRIST

YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

If these excerpts confirm beyond doubt that salvation can be lost one MUST conclude that Paul is declaring that these Galatian churches are lost and cannot be “renewed again unto repentance” Heb.6:6 However, I believe that Paul is not declaring that these Galatians have lost their salvation but are warnings given as a MEANS to move these Christians unto perseverance as explained above. Moreover if my opponent insists Galatians proves his point he must understand that by openly confessing that it is by his self-effort of works-righteousness to be finally justified and accepted by God, he is committing that very error of which here, as well as in Hebrews warns, that constitutes apostasy. 4You have been severed from Christ,YOU WHO ARE SEEKING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; you have fallen from grace.

Let me put it this way:
If my opponent is correct that a true believer can lose his salvation even though the gospel states that Christ has redeemed the elect sinner purely out of free grace, fulfilling the whole law in his behalf thereby meeting the requirement of the First Covenant of perfect obedience which no other could ever meet. That in spite of Christ’s perfect righteousness being imputed to His children by grace through faith. Regardless that Christ is in the heavenly sanctuary-the very presence of the Father- interceding for His sheep who have been given the down-payment of the third person of the Trinity to dwell in them as a guarantee of the final redemption of the purchased possession. Discounting the dual benefits accomplished by the Son of God in the atonement of justification and sanctification-being forensically declared “not guilty” by the Sovereign Judge of all the earth and His preservation of all those chosen “in Christ” before the foundation of the world. The Holy Spirit’s ever present enabling power reforming the Christian into the likeness of Christ to the end. In spite of all that is accomplished and applied to that saved sinner by God in Christ. That “good news” of the “New Covenant” is to be turned away from for a righteousness that is to be achieved by the resolute effort of man that must be good enough to be accepted by God, to the end.

The readers must see (even though my opponent does not) that that is the very error warned of in Hebrews and Galatians. My opponent has returned to the legalism of works-righteousness required in the “Old Covenant”. It is returning to “the weak and beggarly elements” Gal.4:9 “the elements of the world” 4:3; the bondage of law-keeping.

Gal.4:6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God... 31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

We can plainly see that Paul does not regard these “sons”, “heirs”, “brethren” and “children” as lost-as actually severed from Christ. Instead those severed are false-brethren who are-Gal.1:6 “deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” A refusal to obey and submit to the outward “call” of the preached gospel of grace in Christ and turning away to the “other gospel” of works-righteousness for justification is “deserting Him” for a false gospel of self-righteousness. 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.-by way of a legalistic observance of the law attempting to merit reward from God out of debt-making himself his own savior. A doctrinal perversion on so many levels.

Is not the very point of Paul’s letter to the churches in Galatia to warn them of the consequences of seeking the “different gospel” of “the works of the law” to be justified, which letter my opponent attests as supporting his theology? A primary rule of interpreting Scripture is submitting to the intention of the author.

APOSTASY is turning from the gospel message for a works-righteousness method and leaving the true church community, not losing a salvation that was never possessed -They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 1Jn.2:19

Col.2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. 16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. 20If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence 3:1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

“This "philosophy and empty deceit," then, is said by Paul to follow "the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ" (Col. 2:8). The Colossian Christians, it seems, had at one time been subject to those "elemental forces," those "stoixeia", but through union with Christ by faith they had "died" in relation to those forces and so were no longer bound to obey them (Col. 2:20). The "elemental forces" play much the same part here as they do in the argument of Galatians 4:3, 9, where Christians (whether Jewish or Gentile by birth) who submit to circumcision and similar requirements of the Jewish Law are described as reverting to slavery under the "elemental forces." So, according to Paul's present argument with the Colossians, submission to the prohibitions "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!" (Col. 2:21) involves re-entry into the state of bondage from which believers in Christ have been delivered by Him.” Colossian Problems Part 3: The Colossian Heresy F.F.Bruce

“The canceled bond of Colossians 2:14, then, seems to be the Law, bearing witness against those who tried to use it as the way to justification or sanctification.” Colossian Problems Part 4 F.F.Bruce

Rom.9:30 “What should we say then? Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained righteousness—namely the righteousness that comes from faith. 31 But Israel, pursuing the law for righteousness, has not achieved the righteousness of the law. 32Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.” And so has my opponent.

My opponent’s system for persevering to the end by looking to works as the foundation of justification and sanctification severs one from Christ. There is his dilemma. If he is right and a Christian can lose salvation by insufficient law-keeping, it is a Pyrrhic victory. If he persists in his severing, works-righteousness legalism he loses all.

If he is wrong and a Christian cannot lose salvation because it is not based upon self-righteousness but Christ’s imputed righteousness then it shows that he has missed the Gospel and he still loses all.

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"We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum." A. W. Tozer

"For nothing so moves us to repose our assurance and certainty of mind in the Lord as distrust of ourselves, and the anxiety occasioned by the awareness of our ruin." John Calvin

"No heart will ever rise to genuine prayer that does not, at the same time, moan for holiness." John Calvin