| General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology |
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7th May 2012, 10:51 PM
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Reps: 351,424,984,939,523,904 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by simonthezealot  Edward Gibbon in his summary of the historical The Decline and Fall of the roman empire seems to think a defense was needed here...LOL, he quotes.
“Of the three Popes, John the Twenty-third was the first victim; he fled and was brought back a prisoner; the most scandalous charges were suppressed; the Vicar of Christ was only accused of piracy, murder, rape, sodomy, and incest”
That's like saying Stalin "was only" accused of being slightly paranoid. |
7th May 2012, 11:08 PM
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Reps: 2,946,003,535,378,828,800 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by merchantoftruth That's like saying Stalin "was only" accused of being slightly paranoid.
No. It's more like saying Stalin "was only" accused by an old seldom used source of being slightly paranoid. |
7th May 2012, 11:16 PM
|  | sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8
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Reps: 57,012,134,242,023,256 (power: 57,012,134,242,027) | | | blasphemy and leading perhaps billions of people to death [as wages of sin] by means of false teachings, seems the greater crime in one sense... |
7th May 2012, 11:31 PM
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Reps: 351,424,984,939,523,904 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by simonthezealot “Of the three Popes, John the Twenty-third was the first victim; he fled and was brought back a prisoner; the most scandalous charges were suppressed; the Vicar of Christ was only accused of piracy, murder, rape, sodomy, and incest”
Originally Posted by QuantaCura The John XXIII referenced there was an antipope, and has been mentioned, Gibbons may have some problems. But you do raise a general point that should be addressed.
No one denies (or at least should deny) that a pope can sin or that popes have sinned, even committing grave sins.
Once your denomination or organization or community or whatever you belong to has been around 2,000 years, I'm sure there may be along the way some grave sinners who might have held some leadership roles or ministries or whatever you call them. The effects of original sin, temptation, and concupiscence do not go away just because one is made a bishop or pastor or non-denominational preacher person or whatever. The Bible says generally that all have sinned, etc and church leadership is not excluded from that.
I'd heard that rather feeble excuse all my 40 years in the RCC.
Considering the heinous crimes and habitual wickedness of Roman popes, it seems to me that it is a contradiction to call them "Vicar of Christ".
I found it to be bordering on blasphemy actually. |
7th May 2012, 11:34 PM
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Reps: 351,424,984,939,523,904 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Montalban No. It's more like saying Stalin "was only" accused by an old seldom used source of being slightly paranoid.
The frequency of a "used source" has no bearing on the facts of the source, which in this case, Gibbon was not reporting anything new or well known already. |
8th May 2012, 12:23 AM
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Reps: 2,946,003,535,378,828,800 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by merchantoftruth The frequency of a "used source" has no bearing on the facts of the source, which in this case, Gibbon was not reporting anything new or well known already.
Using a source who isn't used because his information is often out-dated, doesn't prove anything |
8th May 2012, 02:34 AM
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Reps: 139,144,121,833,735,296 (power: 139,144,121,833,745) | | Originally Posted by merchantoftruth Considering the heinous crimes and habitual wickedness of Roman popes, it seems to me that it is a contradiction to call them "Vicar of Christ".
I found it to be bordering on blasphemy actually.
Your 40 odd years of being a "Catholic" obviously hasn't taught you the difference between a title and a man. Too bad.
And if you wish to speak of a contradiction, talk about your Protestant brethren's teaching of being in unity with the Body of Christ while maintaining their habitual sinful ways. |
8th May 2012, 03:20 AM
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Reps: 2,946,003,535,378,828,800 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Kepha Your 40 odd years of being a "Catholic" obviously hasn't taught you the difference between a title and a man. Too bad.
And if you wish to speak of a contradiction, talk about your Protestant brethren's teaching of being in unity with the Body of Christ while maintaining their habitual sinful ways.
Even Peter betrayed Jesus. Apparently therefore he had no right to speak to the crowds at Pentecost  |
8th May 2012, 04:18 AM
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Reps: 226,463,294,458,032,512 (power: 226,463,294,458,040) | | William Tyndale cried out, "Lord, open the King of Englands eyes" Originally Posted by Montalban The wayward apostrophe!
Oh my, must change it ASAP in-case i be judged a Heretic 
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William Tyndale cried out, "Lord, open the King of Englands eyes" |
8th May 2012, 04:45 AM
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Reps: 2,946,003,535,378,828,800 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Tyndale Oh my, must change it ASAP in-case i be judged a Heretic
In case...???  | | |
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