Pope = Anti-christ theory

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it dosn't work out. it's not the papacy. and anyway the papacy dosn't rage blasphemy like the little horn.

The dark ages were the result of combining paganism with Christianity.

Paul calls that "a great falling away" in 2Thess 2.

In Dan 7 it is referred to as 1260 years of dark ages persecution of the saints. You see that as well in Revelation 11, and 12, and 13. That 1260 year period of dark ages persecution and apostasy occupies a huge chunk of history as John was shown the future.

in Christ,

Bob

The term is dark ages does not have a fixed concrete universal meaning. Regardless, it was due to the social and economic collapse of the western Roman Empire.

Paul does not call the great falling away in 2thess2 the result of combining paganism with Christianity. Paganism is not mentioned in 2thess2.

Daniel 7 doesn't have any time period mentioned of either 1260 years or 1260 days. The time frame stated is a time, times, and half times and correlates with the time, times, and half times of Revelation 12:14 (future) and Daniel 12:7 (future),

Bob, there is no 1260 year period in any of those chapters. It is 1260 days. This is how the timeframes are grouped and where they fall in the future 7 years of the Antichrist.s

1st half of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 (future)
1260 days - Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

2nd half of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 (future)
42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
time, times, half time - Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7


Doug

Why did all of the Reformers believe that the Papacy was the little horn of Daniel 7 and the beast of Revelation 13? And why did they not see the 1260 day period as referring to some future time?

I don't know that it was all of the Reformers, but for those who did, it was because of a combination of circumstances.

Keep in mind that the understanding of the end-times prophecies have been sealed until our end times generation (Daniel 12:4), when the Jews have come out of the nations to reform Israel.

So the understanding of the end times prophecies, which include the little horn of Daniel 7 because he can only be defeated by the Ancient of Day when the kingdom of God is setup (Daniel 7:25-27, Daniel 8:25), was not possible in the days of the reformers.

As they were under extreme persecution and pressure by the RCC, the reformers concluded that they were living in the days of the Antichrist, because there were some of the prophecies that seemed to line up with the Pope.

Also keep in mind that the actual number of the reformers making the conclusions were the relatively small number of leaders as the common man was illiterate and bible were not widespread, and that synergies we take for granted because of the communications of the internet, and information at the touch of the keyboard, not to mention tv, radio, telephones, was not available in their day (knowledge and transportation of the last days when the prophecies become unsealed Daniel 12:4).

Even today there is tendency by many to think that whoever is the power broker at the time is the Antichrist. Such as Obama, Clinton, Bush, Bush Sr, Prince Charles, Ronald Regan, etc.

And the reformers couldn't see into the futures, WWII and the holocaust as the specific events that would drive the Jews back into the land. They just didn't think it was possible for Israel to become a nation again, so they rationalized the prophecies relating to Israel, Israel had been replaced to mean the Church.

In comparison, we don't know the exact details of how the European little horn will emerge to power out of ten kings because those ten kings are not readily apparent right now. But it will happen because it is interwoven with the other end times prophecies, such as in Revelation 17, the ten kings. Personally, I think that the economics issues in Europe will soon result in the ten kings, but I could be wrong.

Regarding the 1260 days, that should have been a indicator to them that they were wrong in their thinking that the Pope was the Antichrist. The 1260 days could not be fit in with the duration of persecution by the RCC. So their recourse to make it work out for their circumstances was to rationalize the 1260 days was 1260 years.


Doug

Those who think that the 1260 day prophecy cannot refer to 1260 years because they refuse to accept the prophetic "day for a year" principle, seem to have no problem believing in the "day for a year" principle when they apply it to the last seven years of the reign of the antichrist, based in the "week" (seven days) prophecy of Daniel 9:27.

A day doesn't apply for a year in Daniel 9:27 because for one thing days don't appear in Daniel 9. You are backfitting one week in that verse to mean 7 days. And then claiming others are using the day (which is not in the verse) equals one year.

The hebrew term for week in that verse is shabua, heptad, or group of 7. Not necessarily a group of 7 days.

Strong's Hebrew Definition for # 07620

You don't have to preach to the choir here Doug, what I wrote still stands. "Those" who say... Oh, and if you haven't noticed; there are seven days in a week.

It has to be a week of "years", not days, or else Jesus would not have fitted being the messiah who is cutoff after the 62 and 7 weeks. And in case you haven't noticed - yet - there are not "days" appearing in Daniel 9.

Doug

Doug, I know that the prophecy of the 62 weeks and the 7 weeks (69) are a part of the week "cut off" is the Messianic prophecy.

Evangelicals and others all use this last week as a prophecy of the Antichrist and the last seven years before Christ comes.

They all apply the day for a year principle for this last week that they deny for the 1260 day/year period.