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  #11  
Old 18th April 2012, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WinBySurrender View Post
At Lorraine College in Ohio two years ago, Empty Suit said:
"So long as I have some breath in me, so long as I have the privilege of serving as your President, I will not stop fighting for you. I will take my lumps, but I won't stop fighting to bring back jobs here. I won't stop fighting for an economy where hard work is rewarded. I won't stop fighting to make sure there's accountability in our financial system. I'm not going to stop fighting until we have jobs for everybody." (President Barack Obama, Remarks By The President During A Town Hall Meeting, Elyria, OH, 1/22/10)
And how has he done in this respect? Not well, some respected media report:
"[A]s soon as the stimulus package was completed, they pivoted too quickly to addressing climate change and health care.

"For Obama, it's pretty clear the recovery won't be nearly as robust. In addition, he has to deal with a more complicated narrative where he must reconcile an early focus on subjects that would best be forgotten with making the case that he should have his contract renewed for another four years. That won't be easy."
(Charlie Cook, "Owning It Democrats Are In A Corner On Their Ownership Of The Economy And What They Can Do To Help Turn It Around," National Journal, 6/6/11)
So, in response to the criticism, we see Empty Suit touting the "Buffett Rule", so named because the billionaire claimed "I pay fewer taxes than my secretary." Well, either she is the world's highest paid secretary or Buffett exaggerated. This is nothing more than an effort to distract from Empty Suit's failures.
"Buffett, schmuffett, President Obama's Buffett Rule has nothing to do with fairness, despite what Vice President Joe Biden might say today when he visits Exeter. The Buffett Rule is about class warfare as is much of the president's re-election bid to date (i.e. the alleged war on women). It is also about distracting voters from the Obama administration's mishandling of the economy." (Editorial, "Buffett Rule Is A Hoax On Voters," Foster's Daily Democrat, 4/12/12)

"[c]ritics have said even if the Buffett Rule goes through, it would raise about $47 billion over a 10 year period. I think your supporters put it closer to $160 billion, but when you've got a multi-trillion dollar deficit, is this the wisest first step in tackling the economic problem?" (Maureen Marshall interview of Jay Carney, WCMH-CBS, 4/12/12)

"On the seventh and final page of its background report on the Buffett Rule, out this morning, the Obama administration finally dives into what it calls 'the economic rationale' for imposing a new minimum tax rate on millionaires. If you're an unemployed American, that placement should be your first red flag. The second should be the rationale itself. Once you read it, you'll realize the Buffett Rule has nothing to do with helping you, or 13 million other Americans looking for work as of March, find a job." (Jim Tankersley, "The Buffett Rule Won't Get You A Job," National Journal, 4/10/12)
The Empty Suit is truly clueless. Obama '12: No Hope, No Change, but plenty of (empty) Promises"
Whew, WBS you need to pace yourself, this is only April. October is the month of rants and raves. You know your Republican House isn't going to do flip before the elections, just as they have for two years now.

VOTE OBAMA! (twice if you can)
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  #12  
Old 18th April 2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Godcreatedsteve View Post
So you're claiming that capital gains income is not taxed at 15%, and that wages totaling 38K are not taxed at 25%? Cite your sources.
??? Nope. Capital gains are taxed at a lesser rate as an incentive to reinvest it. Capital Gains are profits made from reinvesting income that has already been taxed at the higher rate.

So if people are already being taxed twice on this money, what are liberals complaining about?



We already know why. The rich people who run the country also hand out bribes and tell our government what to do.
(SMH) The why is because they like to mislead people in order to score political points. Buffets secretary has to be making between 200K and 500K to pay that effective tax rate. The majority of Buffet's money is from Capital Gains so of course he pays a lower tax rate.

If his secretary had stock where she kept investing her gains, her tax rate would be down too.



If by "anti-capitalism" you mean valuing and rewarding the productive labor of workers at least as high as the income gained by parasites who live off the labor of others, I suppose that's true.
Parasites? The folks who have actually worked hard to start businesses are now the parasites? No wonder so many liberals are leeches. Ya'll are off in some Bizarro world where up is down and down is up.

Nothing but classic liberal coveting.


But did you realize that making capitalism your religion is the opposite of Christianity?
Did you realize that coveting and all this wanton jealousy of what someone else had is a sin?



Really? When was that?
See this is what I mean. You're going on about stuff you don't even understanding. Capital Gains are on money that is reinvested. It's like taking your after tax paycheck and investing in the stock market. Every now and then, you receive a dividend check that's taxed as a capital gain.

To keep people investing in the free market and all those companies and commodities that employ everyone and give customers to the small business owners, the folks who reinvest their already once taxed take home pay get their profits from their investments taxed at a lesser rate.

But it's still taxed twice.



So in your universe, workers who produce something should be penalized because they are "trying to sit on their behinds" and "take by government force" and "stealing and coveting",
In my universe, workers work for companies who produce and sell their goods for a profit. And those profits pay the salaries of the workers. And the folks who supply these jobs take their profits and reinvest them in their companies and other companies by buying stock.

while those who earn their living sitting on their behinds and bribing government officials so that they can pay taxes at a much lower rate than workers

Se the real problem here again is the jealousy and the coveting.Liberals are upset that there are people who have worked really hard to get ahead who now let their money work for them. And because they are able to do this and liberals who want to be given everything can't, your coveting hearts have got to figure out a way to get more of what they worked for.

Pure covetousness.

- they should be rewarded because they "worked to get (it)".
It's their money that they are taking the risk and reinvesting. I don't hear anybody complaining about capital losses.

I've never before seen so much absurdity packed into two sentences.
And I constantly see this lack of a grasp of what is going on by liberals.

Ya'll need to just leave the conversation because it's obvious that you don't know a thing about capital gains and WHY they are taxed at a lower rate.
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  #13  
Old 18th April 2012, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Godcreatedsteve View Post

Whereas sloth was once considered one of the seven deadliest sins, many Christians today admire and seek to imitate those who manage to get the most by doing the least.
Absolutely incredible. One day the liberals are going off on stay at home moms for never working a day in their lives. And today ya'll have set your target on folks who collect capital gains as doing the least.

Liberals cannot truly collectively be this void of good sense.

Businesses generally start as small businesses in which the owners reinvest and then the companies go public to raise funds to further expand. folks use their already taxed money to reinvest by buying the companies stock.

So I guess all these small business owners who have grown their companies do the least work.

That Mark Zuckerberg didn't do any work.
Bill Gate and friends didn't do any work starting that company in their garage.
Oprah Winfrey didn't do any work to build her empire.

Lord help us because ya'll and ya'lls minds get to vote.
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  #14  
Old 19th April 2012, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaac View Post
??? Nope. Capital gains are taxed at a lesser rate as an incentive to reinvest it. Capital Gains are profits made from reinvesting income that has already been taxed at the higher rate.

So if people are already being taxed twice on this money, what are liberals complaining about?
How is taxing capital gains at a lower rate an incentive to invest? People invest money because they want to make more money without having to work for it. Their incentive is greed and laziness. They don't say to themselves, "Well, I'm not going to invest my money in shares of Apple Computer even though I expect to make a a million dollars, because I would have to pay 25% in taxes rather than 15% and would be left with only 750K. No sir- reee. I'd rather go out a get a real job than take the easy 750k."

And you keep saying they "already been taxed at the higher rate" and I still don't know what you're talking about.

The why is because they like to mislead people in order to score political points. Buffets secretary has to be making between 200K and 500K to pay that effective tax rate. The majority of Buffet's money is from Capital Gains so of course he pays a lower tax rate.
The income tax rate for those earning 43K -83K is 25%. The income tax rate for those earning 174K - 379K is 33% - over twice the rate her boss is paying.


Parasites? The folks who have actually worked hard to start businesses are now the parasites? No wonder so many liberals are leeches.
Most rich people got their money through inheritance - the only thing they ever worked at is getting daddy to pay for everything. Most of the rest are like Romney (who was also born rich). He made most of his money by buying companies that someone else started and stripping it of its assets, bleeding it dry, forcing it into bankruptcy, and laying off thousands of workers in the process. When it comes to parasites, Romney is at the head of the pack.

Did you realize that coveting and all this wanton jealousy of what someone else had is a sin?
Tell that to Mitt


See this is what I mean. You're going on about stuff you don't even understanding. Capital Gains are on money that is reinvested. It's like taking your after tax paycheck and investing in the stock market. Every now and then, you receive a dividend check that's taxed as a capital gain.
If I take my after-tax paycheck and invest it in the stock market or bet it on a horse and make a profit - that profit was never taxed. The principal might have been taxed and I might also be able to write it off my total income if I lose it, but the profit was never taxed. So I really don't know what you're talking about. Why is it that if I make more money through gambling it shouldn't be taxed, but if I make more money by getting another job it should be taxed. Why do you hate honest labor?

To keep people investing in the free market and all those companies and commodities that employ everyone and give customers to the small business owners, the folks who reinvest their already once taxed take home pay get their profits from their investments taxed at a lesser rate.
Oh please. Most rich people, like Romney, never did an honest days work in their life. They invest money because, like a degenerate gamblers, they'd do anything not to have to work for it. They are consumed with greed and couldn't care less about people who work for a living.

BTW: Did you know that usury is condemned in the Bible? That what Romney and other rich people do to earn a living was once considered by the church to be a heinous sin? As late as 1311, the Christian Church made the ban on usury absolute and declared all secular legislation in its favour, null and void. And yet this the sort of activity you not only condone, but prefer to honest labor. What a wicked country this has become

It's their money that they are taking the risk and reinvesting. I don't hear anybody complaining about capital losses.
Of course, that isn't true either. Romney, for instance, borrowed money to buy the companies before stripping them of their assets and transferred the debt to them, forcing them into bankruptcy. It wasn't his money and he took no risk. You don't seem to know how the game is played.
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  #15  
Old 19th April 2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Godcreatedsteve View Post
The Capital Gains tax rate is 15%. The income tax rate for those earning 43K -83K is 25%. What this means is that if you are rich and lazy and neither work nor produce anything - you just sit on your behind like Romney waiting for the dividend check to roll in - you'll only need to pay 15%. But if you are in the lower middle class and go to work every day producing a product or or providing a service by the sweat of your brow, and you are not a parasite living off the labor of others, then you are penalized and taxed at the rate of 25%.
What this means is that you don't understand how dividend income is taxed. It isn't capital gains, it is regular income, and is taxed at the income rate. Capital gains are profit realized on a non-inventory asset, like a house or an office building, that was purchased at a lower price. Dividends on stocks are considered income, and for those in the upper income tax bracket, that tax rate is 35%. Also, those earning $43-83K annually will pay either either 15% or 25%, depending upon which side of the $60K mark they're on, because that's the first split, not $43K. Its apparent you didn't do your homework before this post went up.
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  #16  
Old 19th April 2012, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Godcreatedsteve View Post
Whereas sloth was once considered one of the seven deadliest sins, many Christians today admire and seek to imitate those who manage to get the most by doing the least. Many Christians tend to worship the rich while treating the poor like garbage. Why? Because even though they pretend otherwise, their true god is mammon.
Then let's take all the money that those people have! We can easily pretend that theft is the highest form of Christianity. And someone will surely believe that. After all, you did.
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Old 19th April 2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WinBySurrender View Post
What this means is that you don't understand how dividend income is taxed. It isn't capital gains, it is regular income, and is taxed at the income rate. Capital gains are profit realized on a non-inventory asset, like a house or an office building, that was purchased at a lower price. Dividends on stocks are considered income, and for those in the upper income tax bracket, that tax rate is 35%. Also, those earning $43-83K annually will pay either either 15% or 25%, depending upon which side of the $60K mark they're on, because that's the first split, not $43K. Its apparent you didn't do your homework before this post went up.
Not bad, but you left out the sale of stocks, bonds, gold, silver other precious metals, and I believe currency and commodities (oil) also. So Godcreatedsteve example is accurate. The very wealthy sit back in having professional managers invest their monies and reap in millions and only pay 15%.
Of course, GOP types would say that the money invested goes to creating jobs. This is fully not accurate, because some stocks may be purchased in company x which company x expands and hires workers, but as soon as the stocks start to drop the stocks are sold and company x may need to lay off many employees. Also we must note in the world of investing the American company one invests in may have their workforce tied in with FoxConn or another similar firm, meaning no American job was created at all.
Then there is the trickle down idea that when the wealthy do well they spend money. That's bull, wealthy people spend money in good times and in bad, because they can afford to.
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
Then let's take all the money that those people have! We can easily pretend that theft is the highest form of Christianity. And someone will surely believe that. After all, you did.
I don't believe the message was to stop folk from becoming wealthy, but rather to have everyone pay the same %. If everyone was made to pay 15%, I don't see how anyone could complain. It's obvious to me the the tax code with all it's deductions and loop-holes to determine taxable income from actual income and being a gradual increase in % from the Rate Schedule is unfair to the middle-class.

The effort to have a flat rate fell short several times. Maybe because the middle-class didn't hire a army of lobbyist.
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lovely Lane View Post
The effort to have a flat rate fell short several times. Maybe because the middle-class didn't hire a army of lobbyist.
Is that whom Harry Reid answers to? He's totally in charge of this.
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Originally Posted by WinBySurrender View Post
What this means is that you don't understand how dividend income is taxed. It isn't capital gains, it is regular income, and is taxed at the income rate.
That is incorrect. The tax rate on qualified dividends ( dividends paid by a corporation on stock you have held at least 60 days) is 15%. Unless you are in the 10 - 15% ordinary income tax bracket, in which case it's 0%

Capital gains are profit realized on a non-inventory asset, like a house or an office building, that was purchased at a lower price. Dividends on stocks are considered income, and for those in the upper income tax bracket, that tax rate is 35%.
That is incorrect. Only short-term capital gains (stocks held for less than a year or dividends paid on stocks held for less than 60 days) are are taxed at the regular rate (and there are many ways to get around it). Otherwise they are taxed at 15% (or 0% is you are in the lowest two tax brackets).

Also, those earning $43-83K annually will pay either either 15% or 25%, depending upon which side of the $60K mark they're on, because that's the first split, not $43K. Its apparent you didn't do your homework before this post went up.
That is also incorrect. Those who are married and filing jointly with a taxable income of less that $67,900 will pay 0% on their long term capital gains and qualified dividends. Otherwise it's 15%. I sure hope you didn't help anyone with their taxes or you're in a lot of trouble.
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