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17th April 2012, 05:13 PM
|  | Grand Sasquatch
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I thought this was a good brief description as to what Presbyterians believe.
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"I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun- not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
(C. S. Lewis) |
25th September 2012, 12:59 AM
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Proverbs 3:5-7 (KJV)
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. |
25th September 2012, 01:52 AM
| | Grand Sasquatch
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"I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun- not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
(C. S. Lewis) |
17th October 2012, 11:48 PM
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18th October 2012, 08:08 AM
|  | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 533,695,394,542,638,976 (power: 533,695,394,542,648) | | Originally Posted by SPB1987  According to Presbyterian beliefs, do we have the ability to choose to accept God? The bit on sovereignty has me confused...are our entire lives planned with us having no ability to impact anything?
Sure we have that ability. But only through grace.
Reformed folk normally believe in "compatibiliism." This is the idea that responsible human choice and God's plan are compatible. God doesn't just force people to do things. He works through normal human processes. People choose him because they are the kind of people they are, with the kind of experiences they had, and because the Holy Spirit is working with them. So they actually choose. It's just that this choice is part of God's plan, and we are only able to choose him because God has ordained the specific helps for us that he did. |
18th October 2012, 02:20 PM
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Reps: 34,636,398,791,953,304 (power: 34,636,398,791,962) | | Originally Posted by hedrick Sure we have that ability. But only through grace.
Reformed folk normally believe in "compatibiliism." This is the idea that responsible human choice and God's plan are compatible. God doesn't just force people to do things. He works through normal human processes. People choose him because they are the kind of people they are, with the kind of experiences they had, and because the Holy Spirit is working with them. So they actually choose. It's just that this choice is part of God's plan, and we are only able to choose him because God has ordained the specific helps for us that he did.
Good explanation 
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Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever. Amen
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Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you
All things are passing, God alone never changes
Patient endurance attains all things,
Whoever has God wants for nothing,
God Alone Suffices -St Teresa of Avila |
18th October 2012, 09:00 PM
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Reps: 43,179,944,039,710,864 (power: 43,179,944,039,713) | | Originally Posted by hedrick Sure we have that ability. But only through grace.
Reformed folk normally believe in "compatibiliism." This is the idea that responsible human choice and God's plan are compatible. God doesn't just force people to do things. He works through normal human processes. People choose him because they are the kind of people they are, with the kind of experiences they had, and because the Holy Spirit is working with them. So they actually choose. It's just that this choice is part of God's plan, and we are only able to choose him because God has ordained the specific helps for us that he did.
So essentially only some of us are chosen? What about those who are not chosen? What happens to them? |
20th October 2012, 12:53 AM
|  | Presbyterian (PCA)
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Reps: 266,041,718,120,753,952 (power: 266,041,718,120,761) | | Originally Posted by SPB1987 So essentially only some of us are chosen? What about those who are not chosen? What happens to them?
Those not chosen are left in their sins and their destiny is well-known from Scripture, no?
The real question is, "Why does God extend efficacious saving grace to anyone?"
Romans 11:33-36.
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Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
Administrative Staff/Faculty, The North American Reformed Seminary
I'm a Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell
in the midst of a people of unclean lips
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20th October 2012, 06:36 PM
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Reps: 43,179,944,039,710,864 (power: 43,179,944,039,713) | | Originally Posted by AMR Those not chosen are left in their sins and their destiny is well-known from Scripture, no?
The real question is, "Why does God extend efficacious saving grace to anyone?"
Romans 11:33-36.
The real question is why create humans that you will purposefully not save? I am not trying to be combative but I just can not understand this train of thought.....why create a human being that God knows in advance he will not choose to save and instead condemn to hell? I am asking these questions because from my readings of the Bible, it appears in some instances we have a choice and in others we are simply just chosen or not...just do not understand. My background comes from the free will point of view...Southern Baptist and Church of Christ if that helps any. |
22nd October 2012, 03:38 PM
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Reps: 59,601,815,256,548,672 (power: 59,601,815,256,551) | | Originally Posted by SPB1987 The real question is why create humans that you will purposefully not save? I am not trying to be combative but I just can not understand this train of thought.....why create a human being that God knows in advance he will not choose to save and instead condemn to hell?
We're not asked to understand why God does what He does. We're asked to believe Him when He tells us what He does. I know you know that, but I'm just trying to point out what your objection seems to suggest. By accident, many people go to the Bible with the idea that God is supposed to sell His plan to them. He isn't. He's just telling us what He wants us to know. That we don't understand the mind of God is reasonable, since He is so much more than we are, and since He is privy to a universe-worth of understanding that we don't have. Us understanding His agenda is not a requirement for accepting what He teaches.
Many people decide not to believe a clear teaching of the Bible just because they can't see why it works that way. Personally, I don't know why God does all he does, but I know enough to know that His reasons are better than mine. He does what He wants to do whether I understand His reasons or not. 
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"Pride is the lie that sustains the illusion that we aren't dependent on God for absolutely everything."
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