I think I finally figured this case out and I think many are getting lost in the details. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is who was crying for help on the 911 call. The cry for help continues for a full 50 seconds, plus whatever time you alot to the witness to, hear the first cries, get the phone, call 911 and connect. Whoever was crying for help was sounding the call for surrender for nearly 1 minute. If its Trayvon, Zimmerman should be found guilty of murder 2 and sentenced to life. If it's Zimmerman's, he should be acquitted.
I believe Zimmerman unwisely persued Trayvon and had already classified him as a bad person. Trayvon lost Zimmerman on his way toward his dwelling. At some point, Trayvon, unwisely doubled back, while still on the phone with his girlfriend yet, well within his rights given the proximity of his dwelling to the shooting.
All this while Zimmerman, continued to look for Trayvon, for a full two minutes after he said "ok", to stop pursuit. He could have easily been back to his truck had he truly returned toward his vehicle, as Zimmerman claims, and they never could have met where they did on the map.
They met face to face on the sidewalk, next to where Trayvon's body was found. Trayvon says, "Why are you following me?". Zimmerman responds, "What are you doing around here." and a fight breaks out. We will never know who through the first punch, and honestly it dosent matter. If the police report is accurate that Zimmerman had blood coming from his nose and some superficial scrapes and/or bumps on his head, that would be consistant with Trayvon punching him in the nose, at which point they began to wrestle, causing Zimmerman to hit his head on the concrete.
Visuals so far are not consistent with having your head severely bashed into the concrete, plus, it was raining and Zimmerman is bald. (Kind of hard to hold a bald head, in the rain.) The wrestling match worked its way into the grass where at some point, the struggle for the gun began. With the pistol holsterd down the front of Zimmerman's pants and Trayvon of top of Zimmerman as described by the witness "John", Zimmerman attempted to reach for his gun. At which point, Trayvon realized Zimmerman had a gun and began to fight to stop Zimmerman from pulling the gun from the holster, all while Trayvon pleaded for help, in desperate fear for his life.
Zimmerman ultimately won that struggle and feeling justified that the fight confirmed Zimmerman's suspicions about Trayvon, fired a single shot killing him, assuming the law would justify the shooting, as self defense because of the fight.
If it is Trayvon's voice on the 911 tape, Zimmerman should go to jail for life because, Trayvon fought to keep the gun from being pulled on him and pleaded for help for at least :50 seconds in fear of his life. Trayvon's fears would be proved valid, the moment Zimmerman pulled the trigger.
Once Zimmerman had control of the weapon, he had control of the situation and even after hearing nearly one minute of cries for help, from a person he already identified as a teenager, he still pulled the trigger. An unrighteous kill.
If Zimmerman is on the tape, he should be acquitted as clearly his story of self defense is valid.
That is the question. The only professionals to come forward with voice analysis have said that it is not Zimmerman's.
Was it Martin after being shot dying a slow death, as no one ran to his aid?
No, in listening to the call, the cries ended directly after the shot is heard. I believe Trayvon was probably dead when he hit the ground. I believe it was Martin's as he struggled to prevent Zimmerman from pulling the gunfrom his holster.
I think I finally figured this case out and I think many are getting lost in the details. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is who was crying for help on the 911 call.
I just don't even see THAT mattering too much if it was Zimmerman yelling for help. Zimmerman pursued and if it was him yelling for help, Trayvon STILL had the legal right to be pounding him according to the law.
I still think the law is kinda stupid though because it gives a person the legal right to do what Trayvon was doing. But what if the police or someone else with a concealed weapon had come up on Trayvon while he was responding in accordance with the Stand Your Ground law? He'd probably still be dead with a new set of circumstances surrounding his death.
I just don't even see THAT mattering too much if it was Zimmerman yelling for help. Zimmerman pursued and if it was him yelling for help, Trayvon STILL had the legal right to be pounding him according to the law.
I still think the law is kinda stupid though because it gives a person the legal right to do what Trayvon was doing. But what if the police or someone else with a concealed weapon had come up on Trayvon while he was responding in accordance with the Stand Your Ground law? He'd probably still be dead with a new set of circumstances surrounding his death.
Yeah, it sounds like a stupid and unnecessary law. NRA pumped in millions I heard to get the law passed and signed. Why? Did gun sales increase?
A plain clothes cop would have identified himself and with flashing badge. Zimmerman had nothing and no authority to detain another citizen, even to ask questions.
I guess it will be this Fall or later before we hear of the facts of the event in court.
I will concede those point that Zimmerman is liable, given his reckless behavior. When I said acquitted, I was referring to murder 2. I could see grounds for manslaughter though, assuming it was Zimmerman on the tape and not Trayvon. Again, if it's Trayvon, he should get life.
It is claimed that since Zimmerman continued to look for Martin for 2 minutes after being told that "he didn't need to be doing that" that when he got back to his vehicle...the law of self defense did not apply to him...but it did apply to Martin when he double backed and jumped Zimmerman for earlier following him.
Maybe we should all 'exaimine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith' (2 Cor.13:5) Maybe we have lost our logic from this story down in Florida.
__________________ "It is a more flat color, and what that does is instantly the cellulite looks more smoothed out."
Zaac, you claim that since Zimmerman continued to look for Martin for 2 minutes after being told that "he didn't need to be doing that" that when he got back to his vehicle...the law of self defense did not apply to him...but it did apply to Martin when he double backed and jumped Zimmerman for earlier following him.
Maybe we should all 'exaimine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith' (2 Cor.13:5) Maybe we have lost our logic from this story down in Florida.
I think this is saying that you're under the impression that Zimmerman made it back to his truck? If so, I'm afraid that would be impossible unless Zimmerman was parked on the sidewalk, between two townhouse buildings, where Trayvon died.
I just don't even see THAT mattering too much if it was Zimmerman yelling for help. Zimmerman pursued and if it was him yelling for help, Trayvon STILL had the legal right to be pounding him according to the law.
I still think the law is kinda stupid though because it gives a person the legal right to do what Trayvon was doing. But what if the police or someone else with a concealed weapon had come up on Trayvon while he was responding in accordance with the Stand Your Ground law? He'd probably still be dead with a new set of circumstances surrounding his death.
To touch on your prior reply to me...apologies to the "thread" ...I am guilty of posting while emotional, my bad...I would like to scratch a lot of my OP. Also I do send many prayers to both families. It was wrong to judge them like that...it's up to them and God. I think the locals have a better idea of what's going on with that. One thing though, I heard it was much longer after Trayvons death, did his father file the missing persons report.
After conversing with those in the now almost 2000 post thread I have a better understanding concerning the emotional aspects.
It is my understanding that following someone is not illegal, therefore SYG wouldnot come into play, it would come into play however after Trayvon layed hands on him. Also again it is my understanding that Trayvon was on top of George beating his head on the sidewalk when George shot Trayvon. I heard different wording- that Trayvon approached George saying, "you got a problem", George says, "no", Trayvon says, "you do now"- then proceeds to break Georges nose.
Before I can make an educated decision, based on the facts, all of the evidence has to be out there from beginning to end...as it stands now, I think the SYG law would apply for Mr. Zimmerman, which IMO would be clear self defense.
To me it boils down to, did George really have reason to believe his life was in danger, at this point IMO he is justified.
I think the question of the screaming make a huge difference, and I agree that this is the fact that clearly reveals who had the upper hand and who didn't.
George Zimmermans father and family stated that they are possitive that scream came from George.
Like I said, until all of the evidence is on the table, it is speculation.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]
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