Eternal Fire SAVES not TORTURES

The Emperor Justinian was the greatest of the Eastem (Byzantine) Emperors. He reigned from 527 to 565 in Constantinople. In the year 534 he published in fifty volumes the world famous "Justinian Code" of Laws, which was a digest of the Greek and Roman constitutions, ordinances, and legal decisions, culled from two thousand manuscript volumes, forming the basis of most medieval and modern codes of law.

In the year 540, Justinian arranged for the calling together of the famous local council of four years later. He was determined that certain doctrines must be suppressed.

In particular, he wished to make it very plain that the life of the saints was to be ‘everlasting,’ and that the doom of the lost was to be likewise.

In setting forth the orthodox position of the Church of that time, he did not say, "We believe in eonian punishment," as this was exactly what Origen, three hundred years before, had maintained and believed. In fact, Origen, who exulted in the truth of the reconciliation of all, definitely used the word “eonian” with reference to fire and doom as meaning a limited time.

But writing in the very expressive Greek language, Justinian stated that;

"The holy church of Christ teaches an unendable eonian (ateleutEtos aiOnios) life for the righteous, and unendable (ateleutEtos) punishment for the wicked."

Yet Justinian knew quite well that “eonian” by itself did not signify “endless,” and therefore added a word, the meaning of which is quite unequivocal, a term NOT found in the Scriptures. This letter of Justinian, still in existence, ought to convince anyone who is in doubt, regarding the true scriptural meaning of the word “eonian.”

The above tract is taken from the following link;

http://www.remnantbiblestudies.com/a..._eternity.html

...And so, the once held belief that Christ would save ALL by the means of his "Gehenna Fire/Lake of fire" came to a dramatic end.

Chastising - (bringing into correction all men) became Torture.

A definitive "age" became - unending.

Saving by fire became suffering by fire.

Every man's WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's WORK of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's WORK shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Co 3:13-15)


1. "and the dead judged… ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS," (Rev. 20:11). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.

2. "…they were judged every man ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS." (Rev. 20:13). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.

Yes, it was once taught that is was NOT the PERSON that was burnt in judgement - it is the WORKS of the person. The end result being "but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1Co 3:13-15)

How times have changed. Has the Church as we know it, slidden further into apostasy as Christ predicted? (Luke 18:8) More than Likely.

It’s so easy to understand Jehovah God never created a “hellfire” or a place where demons tortured the wicked dead, (Gen.2:17). Many are taught the wrong meanings of what Jesus said concerning “hell” (Matt.5:29, Matthew 5:21-23, and Matt.25:41). As I’ve asked many times concerning Matt.25:41, if hell suppose to be a place where demons reside, and wicked dead are tortured. then why did Jesus say an everlasting fire would be waiting for them?

2Thess.1:9 -Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.(here the word everlasting is mention again, but this time, with it says “destruction” fire represents just that, no one will burn in fire).

Psa.16:8-11- shows David ,(a faithful man) ,talks about God not leaving his soul in hell, not even to see corruption, (decaying). Notice David saying… “my flesh also shall rest in hope“ (if the false teachings of hell was a place demons torture the wicked and sinners, why would David say “his flesh shall rest? Hell wouldn‘t be in a place of resting).

Jonah 2:1,2- Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.( was Jonah being tortured by demons?, was there fire in the fish belly?…no).

We pay for our sins once we die ,(Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord), which would make no sense to believe, God still sends the “wicked” to a fiery place. He wouldn’t be a loving God, in fact he would be what he hates from us, a liar, which he NEVER is. peace
　
　

For certain, in time all peoples actions will come under the scrutiny of the Great Judge. But we must be not misled into thinking that God holds back punishment from those to whom it's deserving. This is shown in verses from Rev. 20. God promised Satan he would be bruised in the head all the way back in Eden, which is stating that within the course of time Satan will exist no more. The passage of time that has passed by since then has been long and arduous for the human family.

But there is a reason why God has taken all this time. He doesn't see it as we do. The Bible says He wants all to live, not die (2Pet. 3:9). But for some death or everlasting destruction is the only cure-all. This is where Satan, the Demons and all that makes up his system including death itself will end up.

The lake of fire is symbolic. We can be sure of this because Satan is a spirit creature, so literal fire cannot hurt him neither can it hurt death. In addition nowhere in Revelation do we see that the lake of fire gives up those dead in it, unlike Hades and Death do. In death there is no feeling of pain or suffering (Ec.9:5), no conscious thought or actions. It is a state that God reserves for all the things that have blighted mankind. There is no resurrection from this place, so when all who enter here are there, they will not come back. No Satan, none of his Demons or his institutions including death will make a return to disrupt the peace and harmony that all people who serve God will have.

Yes it has, by things such as what you have posted. I'll rely on the Word of God myself. btw-are you trying to get a THIRD thread locked? Keep it up...

The things that I have posted are but a brief insight into some forgotten Church history. A viewpoint about the lake of fire not often discussed and a scripture regarding Christs expectation of His Church on his return. He's expecting 'faith' to get worse, NOT better. I'll rely on Christs Word myself.

If people remain cordial, polite and respectful and not personal, there's no reason for this thread to be closed. This subject raises issues that cannot be discussed in Church circles. If you don't want to join the discussion - don't post on this thread. Simple.

Cheers

The lake (pond) of fire is where the works of man or the 'carnal' is purged from us all. Just like the refiners fire, where wood hay and stubble are consumed. All men must face this purging. So then we may 'all' stand before the throne of grace. Maybe some will stay a little longer than others, but we 'all' will take a dip.

Are you afraid of the enlightened truth? Do you believe that nothing is open to be challenged? Do you have all knowledge? What say you put down your spear and learn a little something. If you believe your faith is strong then it should hardly be able to be moved by a contrary opinion. And if it is backed up by sound scripture then maybe you need to be a little more flexible. You never know how God chooses to speak to you.

Originally Posted by JPD

In particular, he wished to make it very plain that the life of the saints was to be ‘everlasting,’ and that the doom of the lost was to be likewise. But writing in the very expressive Greek language, Justinian stated that; "The holy church of Christ teaches an unendable eonian (ateleutEtos aiOnios) life for the righteous, and unendable (ateleutEtos) punishment for the wicked."
And so, the once held belief that Christ would save ALL by the means of his "Gehenna Fire/Lake of fire" came to a dramatic end. Chastising - (bringing into correction all men) became Torture. A definitive "age" became - unending. Saving by fire became suffering by fire.
1. "and the dead judged… ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS," (Rev. 20:11). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.

Yes, Indeed, the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is

βασσνισθησοντσι to rub to test the purity is applied to the meaning of judged by fire.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Rev 3:18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, andthe shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Psa 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

Psa 97:3 A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.

Psa 140:10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
Isa 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:14 ... This is the second death.

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."

Enlightened truth? You mean that of Rob Bell and his ilk who insist that all will be saved in the end and 'hell' in scripture really meant the local garbage dump? I can do without that enlightenment. Funny thing is that concept of 'hell' (Ghehenna) as referring to the Hinnom Valley where the locals burned their garbage may have been used only as an analogy (if this is true at ALL). Also, the first reference to the Hinnom Valley as the local garbage dump is from the middle ages (A.D. 1200) and even THAT writer states it is only an analogy for hell. Scripture clearly states that all are not going to the same place in the end. It is false. I am assuming that we all read scripture here so I will not belabor all of it, but here is a favorite of mine:

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God". (Heb. 10:26-31, ESV).

However, I am confident, as a brother in Christ, that we will see each other if we continue to encourage each other in our walk with Him and share the Good News of the Gospel, just as we are instructed to do. God bless.

It has been my understanding for a while now that the translators got it more than wrong on this one. It should have been left as "Gehenna" not Hell. “Gehenna” (the valley of Hinnom – rubbish dump of Jesus’ day) has nothing to do with “Hell” at all.

Jesus’ use of “Gehenna” is not a warning of “Hell fire” for the sinning masses. It is a message for his disciples. And how do we know this? Because Jesus was addressing the disciples ONLY in His Sermon on the Mount. Jesus WAS NOT addressing the Pharisees, or Sadducees, or the Priests, or Scribes, or even the multitudes.

"...and when He was set, His DISCIPLES came unto Him" (Matt. 5:1)

None of these groups followed Jesus up the mountain, but rather waited for His return. So all the following...

"And if YOUR right hand offend YOU, cut it off, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples of Mine] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body should be cast into hell[Gehenna fire]" (Verse 30).

...is about a higher standard of calling for HIS followers, not a warning about “hell” The sinning masses NEVER heard a sermon on “Gehenna.” In fact the only other people that did, were the Pharisees: Matt. 23:15 and verse 33 (both the same occasion.)

"Gehenna" talks of judgement, that is for sure – but the judgement is directed at HIS disciples, HIS church. In fact his use of Gehenna is only ever directed at the “House of God!”

“Gehenna” ought no more to be translated “Hell” than should Sodom or Gomorrah. In fact Jesus and James are the only people in all the New Testament who used the word. John Baptist, who preached to the wicked didn’t use it once! Paul wrote fourteen epistles and yet never once mentions it! Peter does not name it, neither does Jude and John, who wrote the gospel, three epistles, and the Book of Revelations, never uses it once! The reason? Well, Gehenna doesn’t mean “hell.” In fact it would have been a useless analogy for “hell” as no-one outside of Jerusalem would have known what the heck Gehenna was.


“Gehenna fire” – like all uses of fire in the scriptures, is the symbol of God purifying the heart and minds of Men, especially his church - the refiners fire that purges everything carnal. Scripture talks of this purging all the time. Character flaws of the mind and spirit are going to be burned out of all of us, that’s for sure. God will either BURN OUT these filthy impurities from our hearts and minds NOW (in His Church –i.e. sermon on the mount) or He will BURN THEM OUT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE – but not to torture, to chastise.

"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THEFIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BYFIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).

In all my debates with people, no-one and I mean NO-ONE has been able to explain why at judgement day ( 1Cor 3:13) its NOT the PERSON being burnt in judgement - it is the WORKS of the person. "but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1Co 3:13-15) They are SAVED by the lake of fire, which the church teaches will torture them endlessly.

Maybe that’s because Paul had a different view on God’s judgements than the church does today?