| Covenant Theology The forum for the discussion of the theological covenants. |
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6th June 2012, 10:32 AM
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Reps: 724,239,123,140,237,952 (power: 724,239,123,140,244) | | Originally Posted by dfw69  The old laws are for an old covenant....the new laws are for a new covenant....
That sounds good and almost makes sense logically, but it's not Scripturally sound.
For many reasons, but the main one being that there is ZERO Scriptural evidence to suggest that the "New Covenant" contains NEW LAWS.
In fact Jeremiah 31 purports the fact that the New Covenant will have HIS LAW written on the hearts and minds of all who partake in it.
God only has one Law. One Torah. One Instruction.
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"The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear G-d and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person." Ecclesiastes 12:13 |
7th June 2012, 03:08 AM
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Reps: 779,045,985,450,919,808 (power: 779,045,985,450,923) | | Originally Posted by tzadik That sounds good and almost makes sense logically, but it's not Scripturally sound.
For many reasons, but the main one being that there is ZERO Scriptural evidence to suggest that the "New Covenant" contains NEW LAWS.
In fact Jeremiah 31 purports the fact that the New Covenant will have HIS LAW written on the hearts and minds of all who partake in it.
God only has one Law. One Torah. One Instruction.
And it is so....if you believe in the new commandment to love one another...not according. To the law but law of Jesus.....thus we forgive show mercy judge not condemn not..,
.where in the Torah does it say forgive blasphemers and adulterers?....so the new covenant is not according to the old ways but the new taught by Jesus laying the foundations on how to live with one another....by example.....eating and drinking with sinners...and giving to all that ask of him.....be Christ like and immitate him...u can't go wrong |
8th June 2012, 07:49 AM
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Reps: 147,776,213,923,098,976 (power: 147,776,213,923,109) | | Originally Posted by dfw69 And it is so....if you believe in the new commandment to love one another...not according. To the law but law of Jesus.....thus we forgive show mercy judge not condemn not..,
.where in the Torah does it say forgive blasphemers and adulterers?....so the new covenant is not according to the old ways but the new taught by Jesus laying the foundations on how to live with one another....by example.....eating and drinking with sinners...and giving to all that ask of him.....be Christ like and immitate him...u can't go wrong
So then did God change? Or does Jesus have a different mindset to God. |
8th June 2012, 10:38 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,824) | | Originally Posted by tzadik That sounds good and almost makes sense logically, but it's not Scripturally sound.
For many reasons, but the main one being that there is ZERO Scriptural evidence to suggest that the "New Covenant" contains NEW LAWS.
In fact Jeremiah 31 purports the fact that the New Covenant will have HIS LAW written on the hearts and minds of all who partake in it.
God only has one Law. One Torah. One Instruction.
When Torah is mentioned, those who maintain that it has no current relevance to the life of the believer inevitably go to Paul, not to Yeshua. Why? because forced to study the life and teaching of Yeshua from the Gospels, they will get the clear impression that He not only maintained a Torah life Himself, but instructed His disciples to do the same. Paul consistently claim the position of "the Apostle of Yeshua the Messiah" and did not teach anything different than Yeshua.
(Rom, 1:1; 1 Cor. 1:1; 2 Cor. 1:1; Gal. 1:1; Ephes. 1;1; Col. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; Titus 1:1)
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But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. |
8th June 2012, 11:48 AM
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Reps: 724,239,123,140,237,952 (power: 724,239,123,140,244) | | Originally Posted by visionary When Torah is mentioned, those who maintain that it has no current relevance to the life of the believer inevitably go to Paul, not to Yeshua. Why? because forced to study the life and teaching of Yeshua from the Gospels, they will get the clear impression that He not only maintained a Torah life Himself, but instructed His disciples to do the same. Paul consistently claim the position of "the Apostle of Yeshua the Messiah" and did not teach anything different than Yeshua.
(Rom, 1:1; 1 Cor. 1:1; 2 Cor. 1:1; Gal. 1:1; Ephes. 1;1; Col. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; Titus 1:1)
Brilliant observation!
It is a bit peculiar that many resort to "their interpretation of Paul" instead of the unmistakable words of Yeshua!
Peter was right to write:
15. and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16. as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
Alot of this is happening today (sadly).
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"The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear G-d and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person." Ecclesiastes 12:13 |
9th June 2012, 01:10 AM
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Reps: 779,045,985,450,919,808 (power: 779,045,985,450,923) | | Originally Posted by PROPHECYKID So then did God change? Or does Jesus have a different mindset to God.
No change...but fulfillment of the new covenant promised would come to pass...Jesus and God are one on the work of salvation....
The law was made for man...man fulfilled the requirements of the law in Jesus...Jesus fulfilled the law for us....thus salvation....the law is now dead to them who live for Jesus.......so why continue to follow the law?....it is unbelief in Christ if you continue in the law..... |
9th June 2012, 07:56 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,824) | | Originally Posted by dfw69 No change...but fulfillment of the new covenant promised would come to pass...Jesus and God are one on the work of salvation....
The law was made for man...man fulfilled the requirements of the law in Jesus...Jesus fulfilled the law for us....thus salvation....the law is now dead to them who live for Jesus.......so why continue to follow the law?....it is unbelief in Christ if you continue in the law.....
A kingdom without a law is lawless. A man who knows no law is also lawless.
God's kingdom continues to have its laws, man was given with a born again experience new eyes to see the law in this new light... not that the law has changed but that the hearts of the believers has changed and is transformed and continues to be transformed by the converting power of the law by the Holy Spirit. Now like Yeshua you do not read the letter of the law, you see the depth of the law and thus when you read "thou shalt not commit adultery, you see other things like lust is also included.
Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalm 51:13
Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Do you teach your children not to steal, lie, kill, etc...?
then you are at this point...
Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
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But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. |
10th June 2012, 08:10 PM
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Reps: 779,045,985,450,919,808 (power: 779,045,985,450,923) | | | The kingdom of Jesus does indeed have laws...lie not...judge not...condemn not.
.bear one another's burdens and many more in the new covenant....simply ....love one another....new laws of a new covenant....if you follow the old laws .....you are still following the old covenant....not the new |
10th June 2012, 10:02 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,824) | | Originally Posted by dfw69 The kingdom of Jesus does indeed have laws...lie not...judge not...condemn not.
.bear one another's burdens and many more in the new covenant....simply ....love one another....new laws of a new covenant....if you follow the old laws .....you are still following the old covenant....not the new
If you do not recognize that author in the one, you will not see the similarities in the other
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But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. |
11th June 2012, 01:38 AM
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Reps: 779,045,985,450,919,808 (power: 779,045,985,450,923) | | | Similar yes.....the same no....the old has specific instructions for them who break the commandments against us....the new also ....they don't agree....one says condemn....the other says forgive...2 different outcomes....one is put to death....the other is pardon.....one was given by Moses....the other by the true Messiah ......2 different foundations...who will you follow?.....I chose yahushua | | |
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