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  #1  
Unread 6th April 2012, 05:32 PM
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God does not desire to save the Reprobate.

There is no well meant offer for someone who God has set apart as a vessel of wrath.

Christ did not die for the reprobate.

The Holy Spirit will not regenerate he reprobate.

The reprobate is accursed.

Here is an outstanding article on the subject.

Does God Really Desire to Save the Reprobate?

God’s command to Christian ministers is: "Proclaim My Word—all of it—as a faithful herald! Do not keep parts back and do not mix it with falsehood!" (cf. II Cor. 2:17; 4:2). He who proclaims the gospel must will that God’s will be done through the preaching: the salvation of His elect church and the hardening of His reprobate enemies. The minister must face these questions: Am I willing to preach God’s Word faithfully and not add to or subtract from it? Am I willing to preach knowing that this two-fold effect of the Word is God’s purpose and desire? Even though some of those who are hardened by the Word I preach may be members of my family or my friends? We need to remember that those who love father or mother or friends or wife or anyone more than Christ are not worthy of Him (Matt. 10:37). The minister must be able to say that although, personally speaking, he would desire to see everybody saved who comes under the preaching (Acts 26:29; Rom. 9:1-3; 10:1), God’s sovereign will must be done.17
Christ Himself, that great preacher of God’s grace, declared, "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight" (Matt. 11:25-26, quoted in Canons I:R:8). The minister who is not willing to be a means of hardening for the reprobate, as well as saving the elect, and who can not add his "Amen" to these words of our Lord Jesus, he is the one who is not truly preaching the gospel.
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  #2  
Unread 6th April 2012, 06:19 PM
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Brother, here is what I see as error in what you post.

We do not know who the reprobates are. We do not even know if we are ourselves! We are told plainly that many of us are the ground that started out well, the seed was good, it germinated, but the cares of this life entered in and it produced no fruit to perfection. Reprobate.

We are told that there are those who are the hard earth, the plow of God was not allowed to do its work, and thus, their foundation was shallow and when the heat was turned up, they wilted and produced no fruit to perfection. Reprobate.

In both these cases, the seed was good seed, godly seed, and it germinated and sprang forth to real life. There is but one way to make ones calling and election a sure thing. Endure in the faith. Endure to the end. Have we convinced ourselves that predestination is a fact? And if we are right, so what? It does NOTHING to assure us of our own election. It changes nothing for us. We still have to seek Him like all others, on our faces.

In addition, we do not know if any man is to be the next John the Baptist or the next Hitler. We are told to take the gospel unto all the world, and let God work out who was and who was not predestined, amen?

Here are my concerns here with the teaching of predestination, whether or not it is true or false.

First, far too many are initially assuming that since they have discovered this truth, they MUST be predestined to election. What creeps in in more than a few cases is a pride, a holy arrogance, that goes directly against walking in true humility and brokenness that is the mark of the true elect. These far more resemble the pharisee in the temple looking down on the poor man who was found crying out to God "Be merciful to me, a sinner!"
But Paul himself said he kept His body under, lest after preaching to others, he himself might become a castaway. Do we ignore such a warning to us, directly from the mouth of God? Do we not see, we must endure and then endure some more, grow up into Him in all things, fight the good fight of faith victoriously, in order to make our calling and election sure. That is truth whether we like it, agree with it or not.

Secondly, it seems, at least from what I can see, this doctrine produces a self-satisfied spiritual lethargy whereby we trust that if God will save any He calls, its a slam dunk so what do we have to sweat it for, for who has resisted His will? Its all good! The reprobates burn, the elect who do many of the same things as the reprobates get gold under their feet to walk upon. The elect will be saved, the reprobates lost and so why the big deal as to evangelism? The result is that there is no warring intercession with God for the souls of men, and the church is left visionless, and passionless for the lost and dying world we were left here to lead to Christ.

All of a sudden, what often results is a semblance of a club that pats themselves on the back for seeing such a deep truth, as if they actually comprehended what it meant. There is no more burden for the lost and it gets replaced with a bushel basket mentality whereby anyone who is really elect will eventually find their way under the correct bushel basket- ours.

It is time we wake up to the real issue at hand- how do we bring forth fruit in our lives, for the only ground that was blessed was the ground that produced bountiful fruit, all the way to the end. And if, after searching all of our doctrinal beliefs, we find that we really do not know how to produce fruit that can attract a dis-believing world, or bring us ourselves into the glorious liberty of the children of God, then we need to admit it to God and ask Him to show us the way.

Blessings,]

Gideon
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Last edited by gideons300; 6th April 2012 at 07:02 PM.
  #3  
Unread 6th April 2012, 06:45 PM
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Make up your mind

Reprobates;
rep·ro·bat·edrep·ro·bat·ing




Definition of REPROBATE

transitive verb
1
: to condemn strongly as unworthy, unacceptable, or evil <reprobating the laxity of the age>

2
: to foreordain to damnation

3
: to refuse to accept : reject



Jer.6
  1. [30] Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
Rom.1
  1. [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
2Cor.13
  1. [5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
  2. [6] But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
  3. [7] Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2Tim.3
  1. [8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Tit.1
  1. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
When someone is a Atheist or refuses to believe in Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit.

God does not take rejection very well.
  #4  
Unread 6th April 2012, 08:14 PM
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We do not know who the reprobates are.
He never claimed to know who the elect are, nor did he say we could find out who they are.

First, far too many are initially assuming that since they have discovered this truth, they MUST be predestined to election.
How can you be predestined to something that already happened in eternity past? Election happened before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4-11)

. The elect will be saved, the reprobates lost and so why the big deal as to evangelism?
God designed evangelism as the tool, the means, to bring about the salvation of the elect. I think you are assuming predestination means fatalism, which is the idea that the ends happens apart from or despite the means. That is not true. God uses means to accomplish the ends.

The result is that there is no warring intercession with God for the souls of men, and the church is left visionless, and passionless for the lost and dying world we were left here to lead to Christ.
Is that a fact? It seems many of the greatest evangelists in church history were Calvinists who believed in predestination: George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, William Carey, the Father of Modern missions, the Puritans, the Reformers, Charles Spurgeon. How about in more modern times? John Piper, John Macarthur, Paul Washer a missionary/street evangelist, Steve Lawson, James Kennedy, pioneer of Evangelism Explosion. I could go on and on.

I submit that believing in election actually gives motivation and drive to evangelism. For we know that our efforts will not be in vain! God has already decreed to save sinners through our efforts. The alternative, Arminian view is that it's all up in the air and nothing is for sure. The most God can do is hope and pray (lol) that people will be saved. Rather than absolutely making it so, he's just got wishful thinking.

Paul had the right attitude: "I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they may be saved..." 1 Tim 2:10
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  #5  
Unread 6th April 2012, 08:29 PM
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The Bible says that God may turn a person over to a reprobate mind in order to save his soul.

Sometimes people have to hit bottom before they turn to God.
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  #6  
Unread 6th April 2012, 09:20 PM
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We do not know who the reprobate are, very true and very biblical.

With this knowledge comes freedom to proclaim the truth of the Gospel to everyone. Proclaiming the truth of the Gospel is not offering the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ to everyone but simply saying those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. God's love is not promiscuous, He loves His bride and gave Himself for her. Osage is highlighting this in the op, well done.



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  #7  
Unread 7th April 2012, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Osage Bluestem View Post
Christ did not die for the reprobate.
The Holy Spirit will not regenerate he reprobate.
Although you didn't define your terms, I'll assume the KJV rendering of a word as "reprobate", unless you wish to provide another. That would be the Greek word used in Romans 1, "adokimos."

The passages where that word is used have already been posted. Most of them. All of the references to reprobate are the Greek word adokimos, which means "rejected."

Do you believe Christ died for Paul the apostle? I do.

Did you know that Paul felt it was possible for him to himself become a reprobate? It isn't translated with that identical English word, but it's the same Greek word adokimos. Oh, I forgot, another meaning of the word is "castaway" or "disqualified."

1Corinthians 9:27 (NASB)
but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified (adokimos).

1Cor 9:27 (KJV)
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (adokimos).


Paul believed it was possible for him to become a castaway, a reprobate. Therefore, since he believed Christ died for him, and he believed becoming a reprobate was possible for him, he believed Christ died for persons who could become reprobates.

I have no doubt you believe this, I just felt I should point out that your belief as well as that of those agreeing with you is contrary to the apostle Paul's. Paul believed Christ died for a potential reprobate. That is because Paul believed Christ died for all.

On the eve of Easter holiday I cannot imagine why anyone would try to convince people Christ didn't die for them.

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  #8  
Unread 7th April 2012, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SharonL View Post
The Bible says that God may turn a person over to a reprobate mind in order to save his soul.

Sometimes people have to hit bottom before they turn to God.
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"The two basic truths to be learned in spiritual progress are: the bankruptcy of self; our riches in Christ."

"The price of birth is His death for us; the price of growth is our death with Him."

- Miles Stanford


“My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God.” – Charles Spurgeon


  #9  
Unread 7th April 2012, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Osage Bluestem View Post
There is no well meant offer for someone who God has set apart as a vessel of wrath.

Christ did not die for the reprobate.

The Holy Spirit will not regenerate he reprobate.

The reprobate is accursed.

Here is an outstanding article on the subject.

Does God Really Desire to Save the Reprobate?
The voice of sanity, according to scripture is found in the above, the love God has for His elect saves. It is nothing but vain foolishness to suggest that God loves people who perish because of their sin, their sin of unbelief included, as if Jesus didn't pay the price for that as well.

jm

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Unread 7th April 2012, 01:09 AM
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Isaiah 45:22
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

Isaiah 53:6
All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.

Isaiah 55:1
Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

Some people posting here believe there is an invisible unspoken phrase in each of these verses, "except for the reprobate".


Matt. 11:28
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

John 1:7
He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Some people posting here believe there is an invisible unspoken phrase in each of these verses, "except for the reprobate".


__________________

"The two basic truths to be learned in spiritual progress are: the bankruptcy of self; our riches in Christ."

"The price of birth is His death for us; the price of growth is our death with Him."

- Miles Stanford


“My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God.” – Charles Spurgeon


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