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  #1  
Unread 3rd April 2012, 02:14 AM
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The Borgias TV series. Accurate?

If anyone has been watching "The Borgias" TV series, do you know how historically accurate it has been?
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  #2  
Unread 3rd April 2012, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BentBiscuit View Post
If anyone has been watching "The Borgias" TV series, do you know how historically accurate it has been?
I have been watching this show but I do not know about the historical accuracy of it. I certainly hope it is not accurate.
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  #3  
Unread 4th April 2012, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SPB1987 View Post
I have been watching this show but I do not know about the historical accuracy of it. I certainly hope it is not accurate.
I have been reading up on the Borgia family since my first post and if even 10% of the claims are true then Pope Alexander VI was a very sinister character.

I'm not sure how much impact this would have on beliefs about Apostolic Succession and Papal infallibility.
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Unread 4th April 2012, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BentBiscuit View Post
I have been reading up on the Borgia family since my first post and if even 10% of the claims are true then Pope Alexander VI was a very sinister character.
Yes, he was.

Originally Posted by BentBiscuit View Post
I'm not sure how much impact this would have on beliefs about Apostolic Succession and Papal infallibility.
None whatsoever. Personal moral character and the fact that bishops are sinners have nothing to do with the Roman Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility much less Apostolic Succession.
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Unread 4th April 2012, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Trogool View Post
None whatsoever. Personal moral character and the fact that bishops are sinners have nothing to do with the Roman Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility much less Apostolic Succession.
Interesting. So a Pope can be a complete scoundrel but somehow be guided by God when he speaks ex cathedra?
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  #6  
Unread 4th April 2012, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BentBiscuit View Post
Interesting. So a Pope can be a complete scoundrel but somehow be guided by God when he speaks ex cathedra?
Obviously. That is how God has always done things.
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  #7  
Unread 4th April 2012, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Trogool View Post
Obviously. That is how God has always done things.
So we don't need annoying scripture like Matthew 7:16
"You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
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Unread 4th April 2012, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BentBiscuit View Post
So we don't need annoying scripture like Matthew 7:16
"You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
We certainly don't need it when discussing a person neither of us has met or knows much about, no. Ignoring for the moment that we are all sinners like the Pope.


Look, I don't agree with Papal Infalliblity, but there are much better arguments than just insisting "But [Pope you've never met and only read about on Wikipedia or seen on a TV drama] seems like a bad person!" This logic is sophomoric.
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Unread 4th April 2012, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Trogool View Post
We certainly don't need it when discussing a person neither of us has met or knows much about, no. Ignoring for the moment that we are all sinners like the Pope.


Look, I don't agree with Papal Infalliblity, but there are much better arguments than just insisting "But [Pope you've never met and only read about on Wikipedia or seen on a TV drama] seems like a bad person!" This logic is sophomoric.
You're completely correct about everything. I won't bother your sensibilities again.
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Unread 4th April 2012, 03:29 PM
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I haven't seen the T.V series, but he was the reason the word "bourgeois" came about. How's that for some family history!

He was not a very pleasant character. Unfortunately there have been many nasty Popes throughout the ages, however, this doesn't really have anything to do with papal infallibility. The position of pope was a very powerful position, much so than it is today, and there were plenty of characters with motives contrary to Christianity that utilised that position.

I don't think the vast majority of popes have ever declared much "ex cathedra" with papal infallibility, as far as my understanding goes -- it's to do largely with declarations of faith and morals and it's a solemn and definite declaration so that there is no ambiguity.

Papal history is much like the history of High Priests in the Old Testament, you had the wicked ones, and you had the righteous ones. One can't necessarily use character assassination of one to make a generalisation of the rest.
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