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  #1  
Unread 27th March 2012, 10:52 PM
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Can we eat pork now?

Some people think the law of unclean meats was part of the "old covenant" and thus is obsolete and "ready to vanish away" (Hebrews 8:13)

But when I read Acts 10:9-16 I was VERY confused...

In Peter's vision, a bunch of "unclean" animals were given to Peter and God told him to eat them; but Peter was like "no way! I've never eaten anything unclean before!". God then specially cleansed them so Peter could eat...

This doesn't make any sense. If the unclean meats laws were abolished then why would God still consider some animals "unclean?"

Furthermore, Peter lived with Jesus for 3 years... I think if Jesus ever said anything about the unclean meats laws being abolished, then surely Peter of all people would have known this.

Anyone think it's OK to eat pork and shellfish now? Or is Red Lobster of the devil?
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  #2  
Unread 28th March 2012, 08:01 AM
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Jesus was born under the law.
Paul says 6 times we aren't under the law.

The purity laws of Moses were to seperate Israel from the idol worshiper around them. All nations had purity laws back then so they would know what clan they were apart of. Today we have a passport.

We aren't Jews. At last I'm not.

We only have to obey 2 laws: love God and love people. If you can eat pork and shell fish and still love God and people, then your fine.
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  #3  
Unread 28th March 2012, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by KhaosTheory View Post
Some people think the law of unclean meats was part of the "old covenant" and thus is obsolete and "ready to vanish away" (Hebrews 8:13)

But when I read Acts 10:9-16 I was VERY confused...

In Peter's vision, a bunch of "unclean" animals were given to Peter and God told him to eat them; but Peter was like "no way! I've never eaten anything unclean before!". God then specially cleansed them so Peter could eat...

This doesn't make any sense. If the unclean meats laws were abolished then why would God still consider some animals "unclean?"

Furthermore, Peter lived with Jesus for 3 years... I think if Jesus ever said anything about the unclean meats laws being abolished, then surely Peter of all people would have known this.

Anyone think it's OK to eat pork and shellfish now? Or is Red Lobster of the devil?
Jesus Christ does not abolish any Old Testament laws.

God says these "food" are not clean. Then they are not clean. That also means if Jews eat them, they sinned.

In New Testament, God says you "may" eat those unclean food (but with a condition). By eating them, you do NOT sin. However, this does not change the fact that they are still in the unclean category.

So, yes, you may eat anything and not sin. But pork is still an unclean food. Eat it at your own risk.
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Unread 28th March 2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
Jesus was born under the law.
Everyone is born under the law. Being under the law does not EQUAL keeping God’s commandments. Think about it for a second, is someone born “capable of keeping God’s commandments?” No!
Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
Paul says 6 times we aren't under the law.
I hope that no professing believer is “under the law”. Again “under the law” does NOT = Keeping God’s commandments as a believer.

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
The purity laws of Moses were to seperate Israel from the idol worshiper around them.
rephrase: The purity Instructions of God were given to separate and set apart the people of God from those who are not of God. It was, is and always will be about clean and unclean, holy and unholy, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, Godly and worldly. That never changes. This isn’t simply a “national line in the sand”, this was about separating God’s people from ungodly people.

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
All nations had purity laws back then so they would know what clan they were apart of. Today we have a passport.
My passport doesn’t tell anyone that I’m a child of the King. Living my life in accordance to the rules of the King however does

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
We aren't Jews. At last I'm not.
Me neither. But I am a child of the living God, and as such live by His Commandments. They’re not Jewish commandments, but God’s commandments to His people.

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
We only have to obey 2 laws: love God and love people.
Where does God tell anyone that they are to live by ONLY two laws. What if I love God, love people and love to lie? What if I love God, love people and love lots of women. What if I love God, love people and practice sorcery? What if I love God, love people and live in sin? The entire Word of God was given for our instruction, rebuke, reproof, correction and training in righteousness, equipping us to do good works unto God.
When did 2 Timothy 3:16-17 change to “only the two laws”?

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
If you can eat pork and shell fish and still love God and people, then your fine.
Unless God said, don’t eat pork and shell fish…
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Unread 28th March 2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
Jesus Christ does not abolish any Old Testament laws.

God says these "food" are not clean. Then they are not clean. That also means if Jews eat them, they sinned.

In New Testament, God says you "may" eat those unclean food (but with a condition). By eating them, you do NOT sin. However, this does not change the fact that they are still in the unclean category.

So, yes, you may eat anything and not sin. But pork is still an unclean food. Eat it at your own risk.
Can you show me where God gives us that "may" clause?
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  #6  
Unread 28th March 2012, 01:40 PM
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It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Rom.10:4

I never never hear that being under the law means that one is obeying the law. Being under the law means that one has to obey the law. The NT says several times that we can't obey the law. That if one tries to obey the law they have to obey all the law. Moses' law is one law, not many laws. So either we one it all or we don't obey any of it. James says if we break one of the laws we have broken the whole law.

The only way the Bible says we can fulfill the law is to love. There is no other way.
I have no idea how someone can love and sin at the same time. As Jesus said love does no harm to our neighbor.
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Unread 28th March 2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tzadik View Post
Can you show me where God gives us that "may" clause?
It is on Acts 15.

15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So, there are many uncleaned food for Jews. But this "burden" should not be added to gentile believers. It means if they see a gentile Christian eat pork, they should not blame him.
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Unread 28th March 2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tzadik View Post
Can you show me where God gives us that "may" clause?
Romans Ch. 14 also comes to mind (which I won't reprint here for sake of space). Paul covers the subject of clean/unclean very nicely and leaves it up to conscience. However, vs. 17-19 seem to be key:
" For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding". (ESV)
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Unread 28th March 2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
It is on Acts 15.

15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So, there are many uncleaned food for Jews. But this "burden" should not be added to gentile believers. It means if they see a gentile Christian eat pork, they should not blame him.
Wait what??
If you're gonna choose that route...then you'd have to call EVERYTHING that God commands in His Word as a "burden" and "optional".
How is eating pork different from practicing sorcery?
Or homosexuality, or lying, or committing adultery, or incest? Weren't these all instructed to God's people in the Tanakh ("OT")?
Are you telling me that everything that God commands "except" the 4 requirements are a "burden" to poor Gentiles?

I might be misunderstanding you...so bear with me...
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Unread 28th March 2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Rom.10:4
I thought by now everybody would’ve researched this verse, (especially the original language) and discovered that the word telos is NOT end, but goal/sum/totality. Messiah is NOT the end of God’s Word.

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
I never never hear that being under the law means that one is obeying the law. Being under the law means that one has to obey the law.
You believe that God made it an obligation for Israel, including His own Son to keep His commandments? As in they were forced to, simply for having “Jewish blood”?
---for the sake of this argument—let’s pretend that under the law = you have to obey the law. This would obviously rule out EVERYONE who does not descend from Israel correct?
How would these verses apply to Gentiles today?
“Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;”
“so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.”

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
The NT says several times that we can't obey the law.
Where?
1 Corinthians 7:19? Acts 21:24? Acts 21:20? Luke 1:6? 1 John 2? 1 John 3? Romans 10:5? John 14:15? Matthew 5:19?

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
That if one tries to obey the law they have to obey all the law.
Do you believe that the Law of God is the Word of God? If so, try saying it this way..….if one tries to obey God’s Word, they have to obey All of God’s Word. What do you think?

Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
The only way the Bible says we can fulfill the law is to love. There is no other way. I have no idea how someone can love and sin at the same time. As Jesus said love does no harm to our neighbor.
People do it all the time. How would you tell someone practicing homosexuality or sorcery that he is sinning?
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