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  #41  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SOAD View Post
So we should expect more edited until 'out of context' attack videos against the left? SOP as usual
Um, only it wasn't edited and it wasn't out of context.
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  #42  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
Uhh... notwithstanding the entire thrust of this video clip, which is prefaced with the comment that he wants to change the hearts and minds of the people [of DC (in this particular context)], that he lays out first his viewpoint that the problem [with guns] is people are "saturated with violence" into thinking guns are cool and hip - and that he then proceeds to outline his plan - counter-saturation - involving ad agencies ("to ply their skills in a more creative way than selling products no one wants to buy"), newspapers, TV, radio ("to devote to us [prime] time and space..."), entertainers, athletes, "community leaders w/credibility" (Jesse Jackson, Mayor Barry - LOL), and schools (making it "a part of every day, in every school, at every level").

Notwithstanding all that, he says this (~3:05 into the video, for those interested in knowing about what we're discussing before they comment):
Isn't it funny how it's only brainwashing when the other guy does it?
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  #43  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JoyJuice View Post
Well no. I don't know how you can be so wrong. What he is talking about in specific is kids in Washington DC in 1995, and not an overall strategy. DC was commonly called the Murder Capital in DC....mainly from kids killing kids.

Here's a suggestion, slow down in your desperation.
Taken alone, it'd be hard to imagine a more flippant comment on the topic - but given several others in this thread, this one has in contrast, at least a tad worth addressing.

Prefacing his comments with his desire to “change the hearts and minds of the people in Washington, DC” it's hard to believe anyone would think your assertion that he's talking strictly about "specific kids" would have any merit at all, unless perhaps his follow-on comment, “What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people..." is the sole focus.

That having been said, while he does place emphasis on "young people" his comments cannot remotely be construed to be limited to them.

Notwithstanding he plainly stated wanting to change the minds of "people," his "plan" isn't limited to strictly "young people," calling on newspapers (something I struggle believing your particular focus group spends much time reading), radio, and television to devote quality, prime time and space to his message - such time and space not exactly exclusive to your particular focus group. Nor does his other tactics to influence "people" - save for schools - limit itself to "young people" - entertainers, athletes, community leaders.

The only "desperation" here is in believing he didn't say what he said.
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  #44  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaeopteryx View Post
Isn't it funny how it's only brainwashing when the other guy does it?
Who is the "other guy" here about which you think I'm being so hypocritical, and where in the world did I make a comment that could, however remotely, lead to this rather gargantuan leap in logic?

I know you hate me, but really, isn't this just a bit silly?
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  #45  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
Who is the "other guy" here about which you think I'm being so hypocritical, and where in the world did I make a comment that could, however remotely, lead to this rather gargantuan leap in logic?
I didn't accuse you of being hypocritical. It's just a general observation regarding claims about brainwashing (regardless of who makes them).

I know you hate me, but really, isn't this just a bit silly?
I don't hate you.
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  #46  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JoyJuice View Post
Problem is he wasn't talking about adults. He was talking about kids who are killing each other.
Actually, he was talking about both, "people" and "young people."
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  #47  
Unread 21st March 2012, 07:59 AM
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The Second Amendment can be reasonably be read to do nothing more than ensure the right of the States to arm their militias in the event Congress failed to do so.
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  #48  
Unread 21st March 2012, 08:05 AM
Why do they always send the poor? (S.O.A.D.)

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Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
Um, only it wasn't edited and it wasn't out of context.
The Sherrod video was not edited until 'out of context'?


lol
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  #49  
Unread 21st March 2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaeopteryx View Post
I didn't accuse you of being hypocritical. It's just a general observation regarding claims about brainwashing (regardless of who makes them).
Well what was your point then? You apparently saw in what I said (having quoted it) something that prompted you to make your "general observation" - which as worded is a rather implicit assertion of hypocrisy - if not in what I said, then at least somewhere.

Can I ask you this then? If Mr. Holder outlines a strategy to counter what he considers "saturation" of the minds of people (and "young people") with repetitive tactics of saturation of his own (media, schools, entertainers, athletes, etc.) - tactics he himself calls "brainwashing," do you agree or disagree that that [brainwashing] is his intent?
Originally Posted by Archaeopteryx View Post
I don't hate you.
Good. I'm indeed glad I'm wrong about that.
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  #50  
Unread 21st March 2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
Well what was your point then? You apparently saw in what I said (having quoted it) something that prompted you to make your "general observation" - which as worded is a rather implicit assertion of hypocrisy - if not in what I said, then at least somewhere.
I don't like claims of brainwashing, regardless of who is making them. The notion of brainwashing implies that a person has not only been brainwashed, but that they are unaware of it. It is an underhanded way of saying that they haven't thought about the beliefs they hold in any critical capacity.

Can I ask you this then? If Mr. Holder outlines a strategy to counter what he considers "saturation" of the minds of people (and "young people") with repetitive tactics of saturation of his own (media, schools, entertainers, athletes, etc.) - tactics he himself calls "brainwashing," do you agree or disagree that that [brainwashing] is his intent?Good.
Poor choice of words from Holder. From what I gather, he wants to counteract what he sees as "brainwashing" with some brainwashing of his own. As I said, that is just an underhanded way of telling people that they aren't critical thinkers. It's an insult of sorts. It's difficult to tell whether Holder thinks that only the "brainwashed" who love guns are in need of re-brainwashing or whether he thinks that everyone ought to be brainwashed because no one is sufficiently capable of critically reflecting on their own views vis-à-vis guns. Whatever the case may be it is supremely condescending to hear politicians call whole groups of people "brainwashed" just because they happen to adhere to different political views.
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