1 Corinthians 2:14

Lol, not in your view, it isn't. Not based on what you've said over the past months on these boards.

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"What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

"Do not think Christians are made by education—they are made by creation. You may wash a corpse as long as ever you please, but you cannot wash life into it. You may deck it in flowers and robe it in scarlet and fine linen, but you cannot make it live—the vital spark must come from above." - Charles Spurgeon

Originally Posted by Hammster

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Question: is the gospel spiritual, and can it be understood and accepted by man in his natural state?

If yes, then is Paul wrong in the above verse?

If no, how does he become spiritual so that he can understand?

We become spiritual when we are BORN AGAIN. From that point, the Bible becomes a spiritual guide for us. We go from being led by our carnal nature, to submitting and learning through our spiritual nature from Jesus. Eph 6:12;
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

It is hard to go from being influenced carnally to spiritually, but that is what God wants us to do, and is why we have His Word.

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"He is not a fool, who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

Originally Posted by stan1953

We become spiritual when we are BORN AGAIN. From that point, the Bible becomes a spiritual guide for us. We go from being led by our carnal nature, to submitting and learning through our spiritual nature from Jesus. Eph 6:12;
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

It is hard to go from being influenced carnally to spiritually, but that is what God wants us to do, and is why we have His Word.

A very reformed answer. Thanks.

<*(((><

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Faith makes things possible, not easy.

When was the last time you did something for the first time?

Nobody has ever been persecuted on CF. Jus' sayin'.

"If you can't keep from straw-manning my positions by alleging I operate from the same presuppositions you do and therefore believe about my beliefs what you believe about my beliefs, there's no hope for honest discussion "
Epiphoskei


As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

There are a few things to address here. One, Paul is speaking about the deep things of God, not the gospel. This can be seen in his statement to the Corinthians that they are carnal. He says they are carnal and not able to understand the deep things of God, yet they were able to understand the gospel.

Two, the way we understand the word "cannot" is important. For instance, suppose I said, he who doesn't study calculus cannot understand the things of calculous. The reason they can't understand calculous isn't because they are physically unable, but, rather that they choose not to study calculus. This is equivalent to what Paul is saying. He said the natural man does not receive or accept the things of God. The Greek is in the active voice, this means that the natural man is rejecting or refusing to accept or receive the things of God. Since he has chosen to reject the things of God he has also rejected the Spirit of God. Since he has rejected the Spirit of God he cannot understand the things of God because understanding them requires the Spirit of God which the natural man has rejected.

Originally Posted by Butch5

There are a few things to address here. One, Paul is speaking about the deep things of God, not the gospel. This can be seen in his statement to the Corinthians that they are carnal. He says they are carnal and not able to understand the deep things of God, yet they were able to understand the gospel.

Actually, what he says is "But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.". He never says they are in the flesh. Or that they are natural men. He says that he can't address them properly because of their behavior.

Two, the way we understand the word "cannot" is important. For instance, suppose I said, he who doesn't study calculus cannot understand the things of calculous. The reason they can't understand calculous isn't because they are physically unable, but, rather that they choose not to study calculus. This is equivalent to what Paul is saying. He said the natural man does not receive or accept the things of God. The Greek is in the active voice, this means that the natural man is rejecting or refusing to accept or receive the things of God. Since he has chosen to reject the things of God he has also rejected the Spirit of God. Since he has rejected the Spirit of God he cannot understand the things of God because understanding them requires the Spirit of God which the natural man has rejected.

That's not what the text says.

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__________________
Faith makes things possible, not easy.

When was the last time you did something for the first time?

Nobody has ever been persecuted on CF. Jus' sayin'.

"If you can't keep from straw-manning my positions by alleging I operate from the same presuppositions you do and therefore believe about my beliefs what you believe about my beliefs, there's no hope for honest discussion "
Epiphoskei


As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

He says, they can't understand the deep things of God, yet the were able to understand the gospel. His whole point in bringing up the carnal man is the way these Corinthians was behaving.

I didn't say the text did. I was simply showing you that the word "cannot" doesn't have to mean a physical inability to understand.

I would be a no. God must draw and enlighten a man prior to him seeking after God. I do think all adults are and will be enlightened and given the opportunity to seek God.

John 1:9 There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”

Heb. 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame

2Pet. 2:20 For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

Heb. 3:7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “Today if you hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, As in the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tried Me by testing Me, And saw My works for forty years. 10 “Therefore I was angry with this generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; And they did not know My ways’; 11 As I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’” 12 Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God.

Heb. 4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

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I believe everything in my Bible is true—even the part about genuine leather.

Really? Man cannot even begin to be enlightened until he is born again. cf Jn3:3,5.

Here is simply what is required:

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)

Originally Posted by Butch5

He says, they can't understand the deep things of God, yet the were able to understand the gospel. His whole point in bringing up the carnal man is the way these Corinthians was behaving.

So is it your contention, then, that man can understand the gospel, and believe it for salvation, apart from the Spirit? If not, then I'm missing your point.

<*(((><

__________________
Faith makes things possible, not easy.

When was the last time you did something for the first time?

Nobody has ever been persecuted on CF. Jus' sayin'.

"If you can't keep from straw-manning my positions by alleging I operate from the same presuppositions you do and therefore believe about my beliefs what you believe about my beliefs, there's no hope for honest discussion "
Epiphoskei


As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

Jesus said when He was lifted up He would draw all men, so everyone is influenced by the Spirit. It's my contention that a person doesn't have to be regenerated to understand and accept the gospel