Unorthodox TheologyA forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
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This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Let's Talk About Hell (5)"
Hell is only Greek mythology Elysium. In Greek mythology, the abode of the blessed, paradise. Situated in the lower part of the world, Vergil says that it is here that those souls of the good, chosen by the gods, dwell after death. In ancient Greek the terms Elysium and Haides always occur as adjectives rather than proper names, i.e. pedion Elysion (the Elysian plain) and domos Haidou (the domain or house of Haides).
In ancient Greek mythology and religion the DOMOS HAIDOU or "realm of Haides" was the land of the dead, the final resting place for departed souls. It was a dark and dismal realm in which bodiless ghosts flitted across grey fields of asphodel. The Homeric poets knew of no Islands of the Blessed or Elysian fields, or for that matter a Tartarean hell, instead all the spirits, including those of the great heroes, descended into Haides.
Where did the idea of eternal torment come from and an angel cast down to earth?
A judge named Minos receives the dead from Hermes Psykhogogos (Leader of the Souls), and sentences the most wicked to eternal torment. Tartaros was secured with a surrounding wall of bronze set with a pair of gates, guarded by the hundred-handed Hekatonkheir giants, warders of the Titanes.
Through the gates of Tartaros passed Nyx (goddess of the Night) who emerged to wrap the earth in darkness, and also her daughter Hemera (Day), who scattered the mists of night. The Pit sired a child, Typhoeus, a monstrous serpentine storm-giant who attempted to seize heaven. Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.
Homer, Odyssey 24. 12 ff : "So did these ghosts travel on together squeaking, while easeful Hermes led them down [to the Land of the Dead] through the ways of dankness. They passed the streams of Okeanos, the White Rock (petra Leuka), the Gates of the Sun (pylai Hęlioi) and the Land of Dreams (demos oneiroi), and soon they came to the field of asphodel, where the souls (psykhai), the phantoms (eidola) of the dead have their habitation."
Pindar, Olympian Ode 2. 57 ff (trans. Conway) (Greek lyric C5th B.C.) : “When they die, hearts that were void of mercy pay the due penalty, and of this world’s sins a judge [either Minos or Rhadamanthys] below the earth holds trial, and of dread necessity declares the word of doom.
Virgil, Aeneid 6. 628 - 897 Latin Epic C1st B.C.:
Two gates of Sleep there are [in Elysium] , whereof the one, they say, is horn and offers a ready exit to true shades, the other shining with the sheen of polished ivory, but delusive dreams issue upward through it from the world below. Thither Anchises, discoursing thus, escorts his son and with him the Sibylla, and sends them forth by the ivory gate: Aeneas speeds his way to the ships and rejoins his comrade." HADES, LAND OF THE DEAD 1 : Greek mythology
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
What happened? I responded to someone's post in this thread and now both my response and the post I reponded to are missing. It was a good post, and a good response, if I say so myself.
__________________ Whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
What happened? I responded to someone's post in this thread and now both my response and the post I reponded to are missing. It was a good post, and a good response, if I say so myself.
Try the old section? Hell is only Greek mythology Elysium. In Greek mythology, the abode of the blessed, paradise. Situated in the lower part of the world, Vergil says that it is here that those souls of the good, chosen by the gods, dwell after death. In ancient Greek the terms Elysium and Haides always occur as adjectives rather than proper names, i.e. pedion Elysion (the Elysian plain) and domos Haidou (the domain or house of Haides).
In ancient Greek mythology and religion the DOMOS HAIDOU or "realm of Haides" was the land of the dead, the final resting place for departed souls. It was a dark and dismal realm in which bodiless ghosts flitted across grey fields of asphodel. The Homeric poets knew of no Islands of the Blessed or Elysian fields, or for that matter a Tartarean hell, instead all the spirits, including those of the great heroes, descended into Haides.
Where did the idea of eternal torment come from and an angel cast down to earth? Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.
A judge named Minos receives the dead from Hermes Psykhogogos (Leader of the Souls), and sentences the most wicked toeternal torment. Tartaros was secured with a surrounding wall of bronze set with a pair of gates, guarded by the hundred-handed Hekatonkheir giants, warders of the Titanes.
Through the gates of Tartaros passed Nyx (goddess of the Night) who emerged to wrap the earth in darkness, and also her daughter Hemera (Day), who scattered the mists of night. The Pit sired a child, Typhoeus, a monstrous serpentine storm-giant who attempted to seize heaven. Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.
Homer, Odyssey 24. 12 ff : "So did these ghosts travel on together squeaking, while easeful Hermes led them down [to the Land of the Dead] through the ways of dankness. They passed the streams of Okeanos, the White Rock (petra Leuka), the Gates of the Sun (pylai Hęlioi) and the Land of Dreams (demos oneiroi), and soon they came to the field of asphodel, where the souls (psykhai), the phantoms (eidola) of the dead have their habitation."
Pindar, Olympian Ode 2. 57 ff (trans. Conway) (Greek lyric C5th B.C.) : “When they die, hearts that were void of mercy pay the due penalty, and of this world’s sins a judge [either Minos or Rhadamanthys] below the earth holds trial, and of dread necessity declares the word of doom.
Virgil, Aeneid 6. 628 - 897 Latin Epic C1st B.C.: Two gates of Sleep there are [in Elysium] , whereof the one, they say, is horn and offers a ready exit to true shades, the other shining with the sheen of polished ivory, but delusive dreams issue upward through it from the world below. Thither Anchises, discoursing thus, escorts his son and with him the Sibylla, and sends them forth by the ivory gate: Aeneas speeds his way to the ships and rejoins his comrade." HADES, LAND OF THE DEAD 1 : Greek mythology
__________________
1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
Last edited by he-man; 12th March 2012 at 08:49 AM.
Try the old section? Hell is only Greek mythology Elysium. In Greek mythology, the abode of the blessed, paradise. Situated in the lower part of the world, Vergil says that it is here that those souls of the good, chosen by the gods, dwell after death. In ancient Greek the terms Elysium and Haides always occur as adjectives rather than proper names, i.e. pedion Elysion (the Elysian plain) and domos Haidou (the domain or house of Haides).
In ancient Greek mythology and religion the DOMOS HAIDOU or "realm of Haides" was the land of the dead, the final resting place for departed souls. It was a dark and dismal realm in which bodiless ghosts flitted across grey fields of asphodel. The Homeric poets knew of no Islands of the Blessed or Elysian fields, or for that matter a Tartarean hell, instead all the spirits, including those of the great heroes, descended into Haides.
Where did the idea of eternal torment come from and an angel cast down to earth? Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.
A judge named Minos receives the dead from Hermes Psykhogogos (Leader of the Souls), and sentences the most wicked toeternal torment. Tartaros was secured with a surrounding wall of bronze set with a pair of gates, guarded by the hundred-handed Hekatonkheir giants, warders of the Titanes.
Through the gates of Tartaros passed Nyx (goddess of the Night) who emerged to wrap the earth in darkness, and also her daughter Hemera (Day), who scattered the mists of night. The Pit sired a child, Typhoeus, a monstrous serpentine storm-giant who attempted to seize heaven. Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.
Homer, Odyssey 24. 12 ff : "So did these ghosts travel on together squeaking, while easeful Hermes led them down [to the Land of the Dead] through the ways of dankness. They passed the streams of Okeanos, the White Rock (petra Leuka), the Gates of the Sun (pylai Hęlioi) and the Land of Dreams (demos oneiroi), and soon they came to the field of asphodel, where the souls (psykhai), the phantoms (eidola) of the dead have their habitation."
Pindar, Olympian Ode 2. 57 ff (trans. Conway) (Greek lyric C5th B.C.) : “When they die, hearts that were void of mercy pay the due penalty, and of this world’s sins a judge [either Minos or Rhadamanthys] below the earth holds trial, and of dread necessity declares the word of doom.
Virgil, Aeneid 6. 628 - 897 Latin Epic C1st B.C.: Two gates of Sleep there are [in Elysium] , whereof the one, they say, is horn and offers a ready exit to true shades, the other shining with the sheen of polished ivory, but delusive dreams issue upward through it from the world below. Thither Anchises, discoursing thus, escorts his son and with him the Sibylla, and sends them forth by the ivory gate: Aeneas speeds his way to the ships and rejoins his comrade." HADES, LAND OF THE DEAD 1 : Greek mythology
Isaiah 66:24 speaks of hell before greek mythology was invented.
note: but because they are dead doesn't mean that they are not conscious
__________________
Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST
Isaiah 66:24 speaks of hell before greek mythology was invented.
note: but because they are dead doesn't mean that they are not conscious
Not necessarily. You are assuming that Isaiah was finished being written before the Hellenization of Israel. The Torah and books of the prophets received their final forms much later than anyone imagines. Though a writing may have been started five or even seven hundred years BC, most of them received their final form about 200BC, incorporating the new theologies.
There used to be a website, now defunct, called "earlyjewishwritings.com" that had all kinds of fascinating tidbits about the Jewish writings.
__________________ Pastor Alpha& Omega Christian Gnostic Church(retired)
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Isaiah 66:24 speaks of hell before greek mythology was invented.
note: but because they are dead doesn't mean that they are not conscious
If Isaiah 66:24 speaks of hell, it is certainly NOT speaking about the traditional hell where dead people are alive and conscious being tortured.
Read the verse, it is talking about DEAD people.
"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Isaiah 66 reflects the view that dead people are dead, not alive and enduring torture.
__________________ Whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
If Isaiah 66:24 speaks of hell, it is certainly NOT speaking about the traditional hell where dead people are alive and conscious being tortured.
Read the verse, it is talking about DEAD people.
"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Isaiah 66 reflects the view that dead people are dead, not alive and enduring torture.
thats okay, their dead bodies will still be burning forever. Doesn't say they were unconscious. Just that the physical body was dead.
__________________
Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST
thats okay, their dead bodies will still be burning forever. Doesn't say they were unconscious. Just that the physical body was dead.
Okay, tell me where it says the dead people are conscious.
__________________ Whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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