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I said there are no demons that they even exist are false teachings. 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to misleading spirits, and doctrines of a devil;
What translation are you using? That translation gives a false impression that Satan is being referred to as a false doctrine. Here is what this verse actually says:
And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
This verse says nothing about the Devil, but does confirm that demons and evil spirits exist. Nice job of disproving yourself!
What translation are you using? That translation gives a false impression that Satan is being referred to as a false doctrine. Here is what this verse actually says:And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons, This verse says nothing about the Devil, but does confirm that demons and evil spirits exist. Nice job of disproving yourself!
shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years.
For Newton, therefore, demons were figures for disordered psychotic states. The cases of demon-possession in the Synoptic Gospels do not describe the activity of literal devils, but instead reflect the (mistaken) beliefs of first-century Jews.’
Originally Baal, the name of a Middle Eastern sky-god worshipped by the original inhabitants of Israel, much denounced but occasionally worshipped by Jews. In the Bible his worship is fiercely denounced, and his name eventually became synonymous with “Devil.” He is also often referred to as “Baalzebul” (“Lord of Lords”), although these were evidently originally separate gods. Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
David Joris (c. 1501–1556, Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory
Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
How can demons have teachings if they don't exist? How can seducing spirits refer to some mundane entity?
Originally Posted by he-man
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
How can something so clearly presented in the Bible be a fable? You are effectively calling the Bible itself a fable here. Daimonion appears in the NT 60 times, daimōn appears 5 times, daimonizomai appears 13 times. That is 78 times total.
Originally Posted by he-man
For Newton, therefore, demons were figures for disordered psychotic states. The cases of demon-possession in the Synoptic Gospels do not describe the activity of literal devils, but instead reflect the (mistaken) beliefs of first-century Jews.’
Newton didn't believe in the Trinity either. Interesting the way you rely so much on a non-Christian in this matter. So Jesus and the disciples were all just dumb Jews who didn't know any better and THOUGHT there were devils. THAT is your interpretation?
How can demons have teachings if they don't exist? How can seducing spirits refer to some mundane entity?
see the thread http://www.christianforums.com/t7604404/Some (τινες) the heretical teachers... some ...giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, Neither give heed to fables 1Ti 1:3,4
Originally Posted by LutheranMafia
How can something so clearly presented in the Bible be a fable? So Jesus and the disciples were all just dumb Jews who didn't know any better and THOUGHT there were devils. THAT is your interpretation?
Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Job says: Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
Last edited by he-man; 17th July 2012 at 09:14 AM.
Nontrinitarianism, annihilationism, etc. are just forms of neo-Sadducceeism.
I cannot post links, but I urge you to google "annihilationism refuted" and click on first link.
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Last edited by BornOfWaterAndSpirit; 5th September 2012 at 11:53 PM.
Nontrinitarianism, annihilationism, etc. are just forms of neo-Sadducceeism.
I cannot post links, but I urge you to google "annihilationism refuted" and click on first link.
I would recommend doing what God says on how to find His Truth form Him, not relying on the web being true... this world is almost full to the brim with sinners who cannot know the true God or Jesus ...
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
--- take the first step, the foundation of God, stop sinning so you can hear God , so He can baptise you to know all His Truth from Him [John 16:13] as promised in the new covenant [Heb 8:10-11] ... then you may decide to recommend God's way of knowing God and Jesus , rather than the way of knowing Satan's version ... as all who continue to sin [almost all men] do :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
the devil sure will give you any number of reasons to keep on sinning and does convince the whole world on that [Rev 13:3-4] but it does not change the Truth...which comes direct from God in spirit baptism once one stops having faith in sin and sinners... has faith in Love, God, Jesus instead...
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
but as for 'Trinity' , isn't it the most irrelevant dogma you ever heard ? ... I'm not saying it isn't a lie... after all God is just ONE persn in Jesus, God the Father is no person, but all spirit ... and God's spirit is God , not separate from God and certainly not a person... so it's nonsense , but the question is why would men choose to divide men over such nonsense [even here on this site] ... why count God anyway ? to what end...? I mean even if one did count properly and found an answer other than ONE then what would it show ???? that God is divided ? I do not think so ...
so how many spirits of God are there ? ... the bible mentions MANY , not One... how many sons of God ? ... again there are many , an ever-increasing number, not just one , all begotten of God ...
so clearly the answer isn't three anyway... and all the things counted aren't persons , and God and His spirit are the same, just ONE ...
but who cares ???? why make such a fuss about insanity of counting God and not getting the answer, ONE ... one with MANY aspects all ONE , MANY sons of God, many spirits of God all one... there just is no three-ness about God, no trinity... just because three aspects are mentioned in one sentence doesn't mean those are the only ones... the bible shows they are not.... but why should it matter to anyone... what difference would it make if 'trinity' were not a modern nonsense invented by sinners ?
similar in absurdity is the again-modern idea that one can annihilate what is of God
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
even the elements of the body are not annihilated until the universe returns from whence it came 'ex nihilo' as-it-were ... but how could the endless creator of universes be annihilated, the spirit, which is ONE and is given from God to man... so cannot be destroyed as it is not created but given of God ....
Satan makes up thousands of things for men to believe so that they argue amongst themselves WHICH to believe.... it is clever, because men choose, but they are all lies...
God on the other hand says stop listening to satan and sinning, choose Love and God will tell you all Truth Himself... no chance of any corruption...spirit baptism is by God, of God ... absolute Truth
but most now prefer sin , division, lies , even in religion.... as predicted - Rev 13:3-4, 2Thess 2
Last edited by strangertoo; 6th September 2012 at 12:54 AM.
Nontrinitarianism, annihilationism, etc. are just forms of neo-Sadducceeism.
I cannot post links, but I urge you to google "annihilationism refuted" and click on first link.
Name calling doesn't work. First of all, This thread is "Let's talk about hell". Who said anything (in 6000 replies!) about the trinity or "nontrinitarianism"?
If annihilationism (the belief that the wages of sin is death, as the bible states) is just a form of neo-Sadducceeism, is Eternal Tormentalism just a form of Neo-Phariseeism? Well, here is what God said to do about Phariseeism. "ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch." The Saducees say there is no resurrection. Annihilationism is the belief that all will be resurrected on the final day, the day of judgement, and some will go of to eternal life and others will go off to the eternal punishment of death, being dead forever. So we are not "Neo-Saducees". We are the complete opposite of them. You could call us "Neo-Apostolics" since we believe the same things the apostles taught.
As for the link, I've read every link on the web that supposedly refutes annihilationism, and their arguments are weak and illogical. Show me which link you are endorsing and I will show you the fallacies in their reasoning. Was the link from CARM?
Name calling doesn't work. First of all, This thread is "Let's talk about hell". Who said anything (in 6000 replies!) about the trinity or "nontrinitarianism"?
If annihilationism (the belief that the wages of sin is death, as the bible states) is just a form of neo-Sadducceeism, is Eternal Tormentalism just a form of Neo-Phariseeism? Well, here is what God said to do about Phariseeism. "ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch." The Saducees say there is no resurrection. Annihilationism is the belief that all will be resurrected on the final day, the day of judgement, and some will go of to eternal life and others will go off to the eternal punishment of death, being dead forever. So we are not "Neo-Saducees". We are the complete opposite of them. You could call us "Neo-Apostolics" since we believe the same things the apostles taught.
As for the link, I've read every link on the web that supposedly refutes annihilationism, and their arguments are weak and illogical. Show me which link you are endorsing and I will show you the fallacies in their reasoning. Was the link from CARM?
name calling doesn't work, but ET advocates are pharisees? Nice.
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Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST
I said there are no demons that they even exist are false teachings. 
Some (τινες) the heretical teachers... 
Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here. 
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