Let's Talk About Hell (6)

defunct websites is hardly a true source of information.

Isaiah's long ministry went from 700 to 650 BC and his prophecies were undoubtedly from this period. Who else would have written them? The theory that there are multiple Isaiah was refuted when they found the dead sea scrolls with a whole copy of Isaiah.

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Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST

Originally Posted by gradyll

Isaiah 66:24 speaks of hell before greek mythology was invented.note: but because they are dead doesn't mean that they are not conscious

My, my, did we forget the LORD will come with fire

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."

Again, very good He-man. If one were not exposed to the concept of a Hell, there is no way that these verses would speak to it. We often have to be careful not to insert anachronistic thinking into ancient writings. The Sadducee did not even believe in life after death, which was a concept introduced around the second century BC with the ending of the Hasmonian dynasty. The Resurrection of the dead was introduced with the books of Enoch, which were probably based on the Pharisee Oral tradition(though there is yet no way to know for sure), and though they were treated as authoritative by the Early Messianics, there was a lot of wiggle room because they were explicitly self described as parable.

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Defunct websites are near impossible to go back to, but the University of Denmark has has some acclaimed success in dating these old manuscripts. The dead sea scrolls date from 200BC, which does not negate Isaiah being finished in the 350 range. Who could have written them? Isaiah could have started them, and they were finished as new theology came into play. Or someone knowledgeable in Jewish history may have written the entirety in his name. Just as an aside, not all of Judaism had a favorable view of Isaiah, as he was considered a false prophet by the Deuteronomy test; however each of the popular prophets had their own "fan club" who would have sought to defend them.

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Pastor Alpha& Omega Christian Gnostic Church(retired)

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Gnosis(direct experiential knowledge of God) It's not an "oh cool I'm a god" type thing. It's a calling up everybody you have ever known since childhood and apologizing for being a JERK type thing.~ Bro. Spark

Find Sophia's match for you at Gnosticmingle.com<-Not a real link "Duh"

Wrong. The verse states it quite clearly. "their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched". What part of that suggests they are not conscious of what is happening? If something is not quenched it means they WANT it to be, but it ain't happenin'. (excuse my poor grammar)
Hell is not some made up mythological play-thing. If it was, even Jesus Himself was severely deluded because He spoke of it repeatedly.

In your opinion. In mine, He was speaking to His audience. The only sections of Judaism that Jesus spoke out against were literalistic. I can see him speaking to His audience, I can't see Him being a hypocrite. I see Him agreeing alot with Jer 8:8.

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Pastor Alpha& Omega Christian Gnostic Church(retired)

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Gnosis(direct experiential knowledge of God) It's not an "oh cool I'm a god" type thing. It's a calling up everybody you have ever known since childhood and apologizing for being a JERK type thing.~ Bro. Spark

Find Sophia's match for you at Gnosticmingle.com<-Not a real link "Duh"

The part where is says they are corpses.
No, if a fire is not quenched, that means it is not put out.
I'm just saying what the bible says, the fire was burning corpses, not conscious people.
No, He spoke repeatedly of Gehenna, which is a valley outside of Jerusalem. He never, not once, said that people will go to hell to be tortured forever.

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I have never studied the deutro isaiah theory, but here is someone who has:

"Isaiah, Deutero. Isaiah includes amazingly specific prophecies that came true centuries later with exact accuracy. The apologetic value of this prophecy, however, has been blunted by the critic’s charge that there were at least two Isaiahs. They claim that the second, later Isaiah records history, rather than sets out predictive prophecy.
The traditional view of the book of Isaiah is that it was written by Isaiah, son of Amoz, between 739 and 681 b.c. However, negative critics argue that “Proto-Isaiah” encompasses chapters 1 through 39, while Deutero-Isaiah wrote chapters 40 to 66 in the fifth century b.c. If so, then the amazing prediction by Isaiah including the one that a king named Cyrus (Isa. 45:1) would be raised up by God to discipline Israel loses its prophetic punch. For if one and the same Isaiah did not write this some 150 years before Cyrus was born, but after he had lived, then there is nothing amazing about knowing his name.
A Response to the Hypothesis. The traditional view that the book of Isaiah is a single work written by the prophet Isaiah is supported by several arguments.
The critical view that separates Isaiah into two or more books is based on the assumption that there is no such thing as predictive prophecy. Modern scholars claim that the prophecies in chapters 40–55 concerning Cyrus must have been written after Cyrus ruled in Persia. This view is antisupernatural and tries to explain these sections of Isaiah as history. However, since God knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10), it is not necessary to deny the supernatural element in Isaiah’s prophecies (see Miracles, Arguments Against).
Differences between the two halves of the book can be explained in ways other than the two-author approach. Chapters 1 through 39 prepare the reader for the prophecies contained in chapters 40 through 66. Without these preparatory chapters, the last section of the book would make little sense. Chapters 1 through 35 warn of the Assyrian menace that threatens to destroy God’s people. Chapters 36–39 form a transition from the previous section to chapters 40–66, by looking forward to the invasion of Sennacherib (chaps. 36–37), and at the spiritual decline that is causing the downfall of Jerusalem (chaps. 38–39). These four intervening chapters (36–39) are not in chronological order because the author is using them to prepare the reader for what is to follow.
The difference in words and style of writing between the two sections of the book has been used by critical scholars to substantiate their claim that there are at least two different books. However, these differences are not as great as has been claimed, and the differences that do exist can be explained as a difference in subject matter and emphasis. No author writes in exactly the same style using precisely the same vocabulary when writing about different subject matter. Nevertheless, a number of phrases found in both sections attest to the unity of the book. For example, the title “the Holy one of Israel” is found twelve times in chapters 1 through 39 and fourteen times in 40 through 66.

Similar Phraseology in the Two Parts of Isaiah

Chapters 1–39

Chapters 40–66

1:15b—“Your hands are full of blood.”
59:3a—“For your hands are defiled with blood.”


28:5—“In that day the Lord Almighty will be a glorious crown, a beautiful wreath for the remnant of his people.”
62:3—“You will be a crown of splendor in the Lord’s hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God.”

35:6b—“Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.”
41:18—“I will make rivers flow on barren heights, and springs within the valleys. I will turn the desert into pools of water, and the parched ground into springs.”

In Luke 4:17 Jesus rose to read in the synagogue and “was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah.” The people in the synagogue and Jesus himself assumed that this book was from the prophet Isaiah. Other New Testament writers accepted Isaiah as the author of the entire book. John 12:38 states that Isaiah was the one who made the statement that is found in Isaiah 6:1f. and 53:1. Other instances where the New Testament ascribes portions of chapters 40–66 to Isaiah include Matthew 3:3; Mark 1:2–3, and John 1:23 (Isa. 40:3); Matthew 12:17–21 (Isa. 42:1–4); Acts 8:32–33 (Isa. 53:7–8); and Romans 10:16 (Isa. 53:1).
The Dead Sea Scrolls include the earliest complete copy of the book of Isaiah, and there is no gap in the scroll between chapters 39 and 40. This indicates that the Qumran community accepted the prophecy of Isaiah as a seamless book in the second century b.c. The Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, which dates from the second century b.c., treats the book of Isaiah as a single book by a single author, Isaiah the prophet.
Even if the critic could show that part or all of Isaiah was written in the fifth century or later, it would not disprove the supernatural nature of the predictions about Christ. Those were fulfilled centuries later than even the latest possible date for its appearance. Isaiah predicted the virgin birth of the Messiah (Isa. 7:14), his ministry (Isaiah 11; 61), and his death for our sins (Isaiah 53; see Christ, Death of). Isaiah 53 is so specific and so messianic that even rabbinical interpretation of it before the time of Christ viewed it as a prediction about the coming Messiah (see Driver). Indeed, even if the writing is dated to the late fifth century b.c., it is a clear and specific supernatural prediction about Christ given hundreds of years in advance. If Isaiah had a supernatural source for this prophecy, then there is no reason to believe he did not have the same supernatural source for his predictions about Cyrus.
Conclusion. The attempt by Bible critics to posit a second and later Isaiah does not negate the supernatural nature of his specific predictions. They do not even succeed in proving that there was a later Isaiah who wrote 40–66. Hence, Isaiah’s predictions which mention Cyrus by name over 150 years before he was born still stand. Even were Isaiah dated later in part or in whole, the book is filled with specific predictions, especially those literally fulfilled by Christ that were made centuries in advance.
Sources
O. T. Allis, The Old Testament: Its Claims and Its Critics
———, The Unity of Isaiah
G. L. Archer, Jr., A Survey of Old Testament Introduction
S. R. Driver, et al., trans., The Fifty-Third Chapter of Isaiah According to Jewish Interpreters
N. L. Geisler and T. Howe, When Critics Ask
R. K. Harrison, Introduction to the Old Testament"


Geisler, Norman L.: Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Baker Books, 1999 (Baker Reference Library), S. 367

__________________

Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST

thats because you believe that souls are destroyed and annihilated. But because a soul is destroyed doesn't mean it ceases to exist. I drive by my car that has been donated to pick and pull every day. Yes it's destroyed, but no it does not cease to exist. Soul can be destroyed in Hell and still be existing to experience the pain.

__________________

Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST

it says the fires will not be quenched, in the end days when He comes with fire and vengeance...it won't last forever. But this will.

__________________

Sir Isaac Newton-
"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the BIBLE than in any profane history...I have a fundamental belief in the BIBLE as the Word of G-D, written by men who were inspired. I study the BIBLE daily." Sir Isaac- founded physics, mechanics and calculus
“Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.”
—JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST