Mariology & HagiographyThe forum to discuss the area of Christian theology concerned with Mary, the Mother of Jesus as well as the theology involving Saints.
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"We've had enough of exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence." - Saint Catherine of Siena
I guess Peter would be in trouble on this forum today. I mean, he actually referred to David as DEAD.
Men and brothers, let me freely speak to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us to this day. Acts 2:29
Let's just call it what it is, and stop with all this PC "non-sense".
__________________ Plead my cause, O Lord, with those who strive with me;
Fight against those who fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler,
And stand up for my help.
Also draw out the spear,
And stop those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
“I am your salvation.”
Christ conquered death; those who are absent from the body are present with the Lord (Paul), who is the author and bestower of life (both zoe and bios).
How can one be present with He who is Life, and be dead ?
The Scriptures delineate between life and life; zoe, the more 'important' is the spiritual life, and bios the physical life.
In this sense, the body dies, the bios ends, yet the zoe in Christ continues.
Thus, the Saints that are 'dead' are not dead; though the bios has ended, the zoe in Christ continues.
"And they that seek the Lord shall praise Him; their hearts shall live forever."
"... you have come (present tense) to the Heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect."
__________________
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" ... let us commit ourselves, and one another, and our whole lives to Christ our God."
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. Hebrews 11:5-13
__________________ Plead my cause, O Lord, with those who strive with me;
Fight against those who fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler,
And stand up for my help.
Also draw out the spear,
And stop those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
“I am your salvation.”
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. Hebrews 11:5-13
It might be helpful to look into the terminology of the NT, the particular Greek words for life, and the particular terminology for death.
My Lord has conquered death; those who are with He who is the author of life are not dead.
Christ is risen +
__________________
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" ... let us commit ourselves, and one another, and our whole lives to Christ our God."
It might be helpful to look into the terminology of the NT, the particular Greek words for life, and the particular terminology for death.
My Lord has conquered death; those who are with He who is the author of life are not dead.
Christ is risen +
Yes, Christ is risen, but David and rest of the righteous are DEAD in Christ. They will be raised again when Christ returns.
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16
__________________ Plead my cause, O Lord, with those who strive with me;
Fight against those who fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler,
And stand up for my help.
Also draw out the spear,
And stop those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
“I am your salvation.”
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” Mark 12:25-27
I take it Christ would also be in trouble for calling the dead, "DEAD"? Calling dead people dead is not derogatory, it's what they are...they are dead! C'mon, since when has it been offensive to refer to the dead as dead? I believe this is just PC gone too far..
__________________ Plead my cause, O Lord, with those who strive with me;
Fight against those who fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler,
And stand up for my help.
Also draw out the spear,
And stop those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
“I am your salvation.”
Last edited by Lion King; 20th April 2012 at 11:33 PM.
Yes, Christ is risen, but David and rest of the righteous are DEAD in Christ. They will be raised again when Christ returns.
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16
And this refers to the body, not the zoe.
However, this matter should not be discussed in this thread, as this thread has a different purpose.
__________________
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" ... let us commit ourselves, and one another, and our whole lives to Christ our God."
__________________ Plead my cause, O Lord, with those who strive with me;
Fight against those who fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler,
And stand up for my help.
Also draw out the spear,
And stop those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
“I am your salvation.”
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