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  #1  
Unread 27th February 2012, 10:07 PM
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Cardinal George: no Catholic hospitals in 2 years unless HHS mandate is rescinded

Warning that the Church is being “despoiled of her institutions” as “freedom of conscience and of religion become a memory from a happier past,” Cardinal Francis George of Chicago observes that “the Catholic Church in the United States is being told she must ‘give up’ her health care institutions, her universities and many of her social service organizations.”
Cardinal George: no Catholic hospitals in 2 years unless HHS mandate is rescinded : News Headlines - Catholic Culture

I am opposed to the HHS contraceptive mandate because it really does violate our freedom of religion. For those of you who don't know, the HHS contraceptive mandate is a mandate that the Obama administration came up with that basically states that all health insurance providers, including religious ones, must fully cover all contraceptives and sterilizations, including those that are abortifacient. It is supposed to cover these to the point that there is no copay or anything for the patient who has the health insurance. It violates a person's freedom of religion because it means that even people who are opposed to contraception or sterilization must pay for insurance that covers it.
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  #2  
Unread 27th February 2012, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ave Maria View Post
I am opposed to the HHS contraceptive mandate because it really does violate our freedom of religion. For those of you who don't know, the HHS contraceptive mandate is a mandate that the Obama administration came up with that basically states that all health insurance providers, including religious ones, must fully cover all contraceptives and sterilizations, including those that are abortifacient. It is supposed to cover these to the point that there is no copay or anything for the patient who has the health insurance. It violates a person's freedom of religion because it means that even people who are opposed to contraception or sterilization must pay for insurance that covers it.
I doubt that the HHS will make it past the Supreme Court or at least that section which covers the objectionable coverage. It would be a shame if the Church was forced to get out of the health care service or other human services which are sorely needed.
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Unread 27th February 2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Yarddog View Post
I doubt that the HHS will make it past the Supreme Court or at least that section which covers the objectionable coverage. It would be a shame if the Church was forced to get out of the health care service or other human services which are sorely needed.
Amen.
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  #4  
Unread 28th February 2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Yarddog View Post
I doubt that the HHS will make it past the Supreme Court or at least that section which covers the objectionable coverage. It would be a shame if the Church was forced to get out of the health care service or other human services which are sorely needed.
I REALLY hope that America has been paying attention to this. This is what happens when government gets too big and starts putting its hands into everything.

Just wait and see how out of control they get if Obamacare kicks in next year. If they are gonna try to dictate what has to be paid for before the emperial federal government takes over healthcare, just wait and see how crazy they go once it kicks in.
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  #5  
Unread 2nd March 2012, 05:31 AM
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yeah they shouldn't ignore the catholic churchs freedom of religion but they should allow the catholic church to ignore everyone elses freedom of religion! Can anyone say double standards!

Nobodys freedom of religion is being violated here. An institution can not and does not have a faith. it can be made up of people with faith but it can not itself have faith. At the end of the day it is another example of the catholic church wanting to ignore laws. Same as their op shops in some places where they refuse to follow OH&S laws claiming they are a charity. If other poorer charities can manage then I'm sure they can too.
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  #6  
Unread 2nd March 2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
yeah they shouldn't ignore the catholic churchs freedom of religion but they should allow the catholic church to ignore everyone elses freedom of religion! Can anyone say double standards!

Nobodys freedom of religion is being violated here. An institution can not and does not have a faith. it can be made up of people with faith but it can not itself have faith. At the end of the day it is another example of the catholic church wanting to ignore laws. Same as their op shops in some places where they refuse to follow OH&S laws claiming they are a charity. If other poorer charities can manage then I'm sure they can too.
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Unread 2nd March 2012, 09:20 AM
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Whew! I read that little piece of inflammatory bias of Cardinal George. He sure does take a strong stand for the RCC, as expected. No wonder the parishioners are up in arms about the issue after reading this brief. For sure, George knows how to fire up the base. Comparing the communist Soviet Union to USA was over the top for my taste, but it sure does get the holy masses screaming. Ha3

My idea of freedom of religion is that government not support one religion over another. (And all religions have the same tax breaks, they don't pay any)

Those on this thread have once posted about how they support the free-market. But it seems they want free-market to take a backseat to religious organizations. How does that work?

Having insurance to cover contraception is not the concern of RCC, unless they operate the insurance company as well. Women should have the right to choose, and the insurance company should make available the choice in contraception.

I don't bow to mega churches of any brand or flavor, but it's about time they bow to the American public. Just look of how big and threatening they have become, a theocracy is here in form of influence peddling from mega religious operators.

I expect the SCOTUS decision to favor HHS. It's nothing to do with freedom of religion issue, it is everything about freedom from theocracy by religious operators.
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Unread 2nd March 2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lovely Lane View Post
Having insurance to cover contraception is not the concern of RCC, unless they operate the insurance company as well. Women should have the right to choose, and the insurance company should make available the choice in contraception.
When an employee goes to work for an organization, he or she knows the corporate culture. I can't imagine anyone going to work for the Catholic Church or its charities not knowing they do not support abortion and contraception. Chances are most of the employees are Catholic themselves. I have noted no outcry whatsoever from women working for the RCC or Catholic Charities or the various orders that own and operate non-profit hospitals about not being able to get contraception covered by insurance. If there has been any, I would suspect they are "plants" who likely lied on their applications and employment agreements acknowledging the culture, and then ignored the binding agreement they signed for the sake of political activism. The do have the right to choose, though. If they insist on getting contraception coverage, they are free to choose another job, the same as any other employee in any other business when they do not agree with the corporate culture.
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Unread 2nd March 2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
yeah they shouldn't ignore the catholic churchs freedom of religion but they should allow the catholic church to ignore everyone elses freedom of religion! Can anyone say double standards!
And how has the Catholic Church ignored everyone else's freedom of religion? The CC doesn't get involved in another church's choice of belief. You can choose to believe what you want. If you choose to work for a Catholic org. then you have made the free choice to work there and are free to seek employment else where.

The US government cannot force a Church to sin.
Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
Nobodys freedom of religion is being violated here. An institution can not and does not have a faith. it can be made up of people with faith but it can not itself have faith.
But it is the people, who own or operate the institution, who are being forced to offer insurance which goes against their faith.
Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
At the end of the day it is another example of the catholic church wanting to ignore laws.
At the end of the day it is people ignorant of the Catholic Church which want to to complain about the Church keeping the faith.

Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
Same as their op shops in some places where they refuse to follow OH&S laws claiming they are a charity. If other poorer charities can manage then I'm sure they can too.
Not sure what Op shops you refer to.

Last edited by Yarddog; 9th March 2012 at 03:51 PM.
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Unread 2nd March 2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WinBySurrender View Post
When an employee goes to work for an organization, he or she knows the corporate culture. I can't imagine anyone going to work for the Catholic Church or its charities not knowing they do not support abortion and contraception. Chances are most of the employees are Catholic themselves. I have noted no outcry whatsoever from women working for the RCC or Catholic Charities or the various orders that own and operate non-profit hospitals about not being able to get contraception covered by insurance. If there has been any, I would suspect they are "plants" who likely lied on their applications and employment agreements acknowledging the culture, and then ignored the binding agreement they signed for the sake of political activism. The do have the right to choose, though. If they insist on getting contraception coverage, they are free to choose another job, the same as any other employee in any other business when they do not agree with the corporate culture.
yeah, I can understand that since I watched a Amish documentary on PBS last night and saw where they get a pass on building inspection among other things. You see, the Amish do not use smoke detectors but the State (PA), says all new buildings must have them.

The court ruled that since the Amish has been in America for a very long time, and didn't just implement there doctrine to skew government regulations, that the Amish some how was grandfathered in and doesn't need to conform to many things that the government laws require.

Other things were public education vs one-room church school (plus education only up to 8th grade), and some other battles won by the Amish.

So, since the catholic and any other denomination or religious affiliation has been practicing certain doctrine for hundreds of years that now the government wishes to impede upon, perhaps the courts will see it the same as the Pennsylvania court ruled.

But I still believe that through religious operators and the power of political influence peddling a informal theocracy has developed of which I continue to protest.
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