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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #11  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Arikay
Ill get to your points and questions in a second, just have one question for you,

If you learned that you were wrong about evolution, would you change your mind? or would you continue to present false information?
Umm if I changed my mind then I would be denying God.
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  #12  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:25 PM
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Um, nope, this is one of the misconceptions you have about evolution. If you would like, some of the christian evolutionists here could help explain why.

Now the second question, if we correct the misconceptions you have about evolution, would you stop using them, or just ignore the corrections and continue to use false information?

Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
Umm if I changed my mind then I would be denying God.
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  #13  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
If evolution was true, there should be thousands (if not millions) of fossils showing the transition from ape-like creatures to humans. However, those 'missin-links' that have been claimed turn out to be nothing more than bones of humans, or bones of some type of extict ape. Even evolutionists themselves don't always agree on how the bones should be interpreted! We can't go wrong if we trust in the Word of God, which never changes and never needs to be updated. It tells us that humans are not evolved animals, but were specially created.
Hey, grade 8 girl, look at this pretty picture: http://www.christianforums.com/t40560

I suppose that's not good enough, although it is practically complete. If it's not good enough, you're deluding yourself.
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  #14  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS

Matter formed itself from nothing- by itself? Complex DNA information suddenly appeared from nowhere? Dead matter, one day suddenly became alive? Order came from chaos- by itself? YEAH right!

If you want to make fun of God's creation, knock yourself out. If you think your arguments are bearing good fruit, then you are mistaken.

Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
How foolish! Yet these people are willing to put their hope in such foolishness, rather than putting their faith and trust in God.
I put my trust in the Lord, and I am grateful that He has blessed us with the ability to understand, in some small way, this beautiful creation that He has made. On what authority do you judge the faith of others ALL4J3SUS? Certainly not God's....he has commanded us not to do such things.

Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
The Bible tells us that, "The heavens declare the glory of God." (Psalm 19:1) Just as a well-designed and constructed house displays the quality of it's designer/builder, so too, the vastness of outer space; the size and power output of the stars; the intricate design and functions of our own bodies; the world of nature- all illustrate what God is like. He is all-powerful, all-knowing Creator. The Bible reveals Him to be perfectly righteous, loving and just.
And science has confirmed that Psalm 19:1 is exactly right. Thank you for showing us how compatible science and the scriptures are.
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  #15  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
Atheistic evolution has never really been proven. Yet it cannot be denied that changes have taken place within different species. There is fossil evidence that horses have changed considerably throughout their history. But they have only changed within their own kind. They are still horses. They have not evolved into other species.

A better example is man himself. There are many races of men. They have different skin color, are adapted to different climates, and vary in their languages. yet they are still men. None are in the process of changing from being a man to beaing some other kind of being. Changes have taken place within different kinds of life but not from one species or kind into another.
Just because you don't know about the data doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do a search on this forum for 'transitional fossils'. If what you say is true, we shouldn't find a single one on the earth.



Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
Man's true origin

What about the true beginning of man? How did he really begin? The Bible is the only ancient book which gives us a satisfactory account of how man began. Man's origin is recorded in Genesis 1:26, 27:31 and Genesis 2:7-25.
Except you are ignoring the obvious clues that these passages are not intended to be interpreted literally. In addition, who are you to judge how God forms man from the dust. On what authority do you limit God's power to your narrow interpretations? Who are you to say what a 'satisfactory' account of creation is?

Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
This world did not come about by chance. God planned it according to His 'eternal purpose' (Ephesians 3:11).
Then you agree with theistic evolutionists as well...that means you are in good company.
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  #16  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
Umm if I changed my mind then I would be denying God.
Not to get off topic but do you believe in talking snakes? Do you believe in a world wide flood? Do you belive that the universe is 6000 years old?
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  #17  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
1) If man's '1st ancestor' the cell, began by chance, why is it that all life since then has order and purpose? All physical life depends on fixed laws to keep it going. Take away laws and life would not last. This order and purpose in living things today proves that it did not begin by chance millions of years ago.
What order and purpose?

2) If a complex computer must have a maker, how is it that man, who is far more complex that a mere computer, needs no maker?
Because there is no natural process that we know of to form a computer. There is, however, a natural process to create new species: evolution.

3) Why is it that so many scientists who believe in evolution disagree in the way it came about? There is no disagreement among scientists about real facts of science. They do not argue about the fact that fire needs oxygen or that the earth travels around the sun.
Almost all scientists, particularly those in the relevant fields accept that evolution is responsible for the diversity of species on Earth. The arguments are only in the details. AFAIK, there is more disagreement over gravity than there is over evolution.

4) The theory of evolution is based partly on the way animals are grouped or classified. But not all scientists group animals in identical classes, nor do they all agree as to how they should be grouped. If evolution is to be proven by the orderly grouping of animals, and scientists cannot agree upon the groupings, how then can it be accepted as a fact?
Actually, evolutionary theory predicts difficulties in picking specific dividers between species. This is a problem for independent creation, not evolution.

5) The earth's fossils show some change within certain species. But other species have not changed at all in millions of years. How is this to be explained?
Rates of evolutionary change are not constant. If an organism is optimally adapted for its environment and in populations of large enough size, statis will set in.

6) If life began by chance, why is evolution based upon an orderly selective process?
Life didn't begin by chance. Chemistry is not chance.

7) What really logical and satisfactory argument can be given for all the missing links between the fossils?
Fossilization is an extremely rare process. Don't believe me? Put a chicken carcass in your yard, and see how long it lasts.

There are many more questions which the atheistic evolutionist could be asked which could not be answered with satisfaction. There questuions are enough, however, to show that evolution is only a theory and not a fact.
Evolution is not atheism.

Furthermore, evolution is both fact and theory. It is a fact that evolution occurs. Even creationists accept this. The theory is in the workings of evolution.
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Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution

Last edited by Pete Harcoff; 12th December 2003 at 09:39 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
Umm if I changed my mind then I would be denying God.
As a Christian you need to admit to yourself that you don't understand how God works. None of us really do. Scientists are merely studying God's creation and God's methods in Creation.

If you say that 'if evolution is true then God is denied', then you are building your faith on the sand. You don't know how God has formed life from the dust...the Bible only says God did it. What if evolution simply describes the way that God has acheived that miracle? Will you cancel your faith because of God's own works?

Base your faith on your personal relationship with Christ. And don't believe the atheists when they say that evolution denies God. Nature can never deny God...it only proclaims his glory. Just because we understand something doesn't mean God didn't do it ALL4J3SUS.
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  #19  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ALL4J3SUS
Atheistic evolution has never really been proven.
Evolution and atheism are two different things.

Yet it cannot be denied that changes have taken place within different species. There is fossil evidence that horses have changed considerably throughout their history. But they have only changed within their own kind. They are still horses. They have not evolved into other species.
Actually, they have. Even ardent creationists accept that speciation has occurred.

A better example is man himself. There are many races of men. They have different skin color, are adapted to different climates, and vary in their languages. yet they are still men.
Unless they are women.

None are in the process of changing from being a man to beaing some other kind of being. Changes have taken place within different kinds of life but not from one species or kind into another.
Again, speciation occurs and such occurances have been observed. Heck, even Kent Hovind accepts speciation.

Man's true origin

What about the true beginning of man? How did he really begin? The Bible is the only ancient book which gives us a satisfactory account of how man began. Man's origin is recorded in Genesis 1:26, 27:31 and Genesis 2:7-25.
I would hardly call the creation account in Genesis to be "satisfactory". Furthermore, if God did create humans as per a literal Genesis, then He must have planted plenty of false evidence to suggest He didn't. Why would God do such a thing?

This world did not come about by chance. God planned it according to His 'eternal purpose' (Ephesians 3:11).
And this has what to do with evolution, exactly?
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  #20  
Old 12th December 2003, 09:47 PM
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See, this is the danger with creationists linking creationism with god and evolution with atheism.

By linking creationism with god, you are basically saying that if evolution is true, you must either,
1) Lie to yourself, and others and pretend its actually false. Or plug your ears and never talk about it again.
2) Call god a liar and deciever.

Neither seems very good, or very christian.
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