| No Creed But Christ - Restoration Movement The forum for members of the restoration movement including Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, and Independent Christian Churches. |
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2nd July 2012, 01:00 PM
|  | JUST HERE FOR THE BEER AND FOOD
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,892) | | Originally Posted by Megagog  If you're going to ignore them because of their sexual lyrics why don't you ignore the Bible because of the Song of Songs? Originally Posted by Gozreht  Well, there is a difference. The S of S is an analogy between Jesus and the Church (the Bride)/ God and His people and is within context of an appropriate relationship.
They are also not used as a worship song as a whole. This group is about blatant inappropriate sexual activity. If S of S said that the groom sits and masturbates while his bride is on her way there then I would doubt that is actual scripture. See what I mean? 
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2nd July 2012, 01:38 PM
|  | In on the cover up
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Reps: 1,713,291,315,093,753,856 (power: 1,713,291,315,093,767) | | Originally Posted by Gozreht Well, there is a difference. The S of S is an analogy between Jesus and the Church (the Bride)/ God and His people and is within context of an appropriate relationship. They are also not used as a worship song as a whole. This group is about blatant inappropriate sexual activity. If S of S said that the groom sits and masturbates while his bride is on her way there then I would doubt that is actual scripture. See what I mean?
So...Jesus is going to climb our tree and go after our breasts? SoS is not about Jesus and the Church. It is about two lovers. The only way to say that SoS is about Jesus and the Church is to completely not read the book and believe what other people say.
I mean, there are several times where the woman has to tell the man not to awaken passion prematurely (IE, have sex before marriage). Is that something Jesus is going to do? Think not. Frankly, reading Jesus into the SoS is a little...weird.
NOW, as to the OP. I do have an issue with the music of the churches. Most are self serving songs. All about me, me, me. All about making me feel good. All about expressing my feelings. All about what Jesus can do for me.
What about simple worship of the King of Kings? Or is that too boring?
People are in love with themselves, and they love Jesus because they have this notion that Jesus loves all the things about them, that they too love.
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2nd July 2012, 04:44 PM
| | Rationalization doesn't equal rational thinking.
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| | Join Date: 25th June 2011 Location: USA
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Reps: 101,263,998,483,608,128 (power: 101,263,998,483,610) | | Originally Posted by gav1nzdad I believe we should be careful when we try to be "relevant" that we don't compromise what we stand for and what we are called to be.
Is the ultimate goal to bring the lost to Christ? Sure it is. But if have to tailor our attempts to fit in with the world, what are we actually bringing them to? A watered down, "lukewarm" facade of religion?
In short, it should be about what the world "needs" and not about what it "wants".
True.
What most worship ministers/leaders do not understand is that worship is not for the unbeliever. They do not know what to worship. Worship is for the believer. They are already saved. They need to have a time that is uplifting and to be a reminder of what God has done and who He is. Songs need to be directed towards God, not directed for man. Even the sermons need to be uplifting and about God. But sermons today are too busy explaining relevant lifestyles. It's more of a free counseling session and that leaves too many believers thirsty. Not thirsty for more, just thirsty.  |
2nd July 2012, 05:02 PM
| | Rationalization doesn't equal rational thinking.
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| | Join Date: 25th June 2011 Location: USA
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Reps: 101,263,998,483,608,128 (power: 101,263,998,483,610) | | Originally Posted by Touma So...Jesus is going to climb our tree and go after our breasts? SoS is not about Jesus and the Church. It is about two lovers. The only way to say that SoS is about Jesus and the Church is to completely not read the book and believe what other people say.
Read it plenty of times. As we both agreed, it is an analogy, you just happened to try and fit literal terms into analogical meanings. My wifes hair is not like a flock of goats descending down mt gilead. And I would assume no woman would find that romantic. Especially comparing her teeth to sheep's wool and having all of her teeth. Of course Jesus didn't really climb a tree in this verse. Read the whole passage but do not do it as a literal love letter.
If it is not about Jesus then what is it about? Sex only? Two lovers vying for each other's attention? Why would it be in the Bible? But I guess this is not the thread to start this on. Want to start another? Could be interesting... NOW, as to the OP. I do have an issue with the music of the churches. Most are self serving songs. All about me, me, me. All about making me feel good. All about expressing my feelings. All about what Jesus can do for me.
What about simple worship of the King of Kings? Or is that too boring?
People are in love with themselves, and they love Jesus because they have this notion that Jesus loves all the things about them, that they too love.
Now that is fantastic! |
9th July 2012, 02:40 PM
|  | Newbie
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Reps: 538,397,497,992,308 (power: 538,397,497,994) | | Originally Posted by Touma So...Jesus is going to climb our tree and go after our breasts? SoS is not about Jesus and the Church. It is about two lovers. The only way to say that SoS is about Jesus and the Church is to completely not read the book and believe what other people say.
I mean, there are several times where the woman has to tell the man not to awaken passion prematurely (IE, have sex before marriage). Is that something Jesus is going to do? Think not. Frankly, reading Jesus into the SoS is a little...weird.
NOW, as to the OP. I do have an issue with the music of the churches. Most are self serving songs. All about me, me, me. All about making me feel good. All about expressing my feelings. All about what Jesus can do for me.
What about simple worship of the King of Kings? Or is that too boring?
People are in love with themselves, and they love Jesus because they have this notion that Jesus loves all the things about them, that they too love.
I wouldnt nessesarly look at it that way. Music is power. God created music because of its power and influence in ones life. (music that ups the faith in Christ of course.) We all know how the devil has it as a weapon, and we all know how some folks praise the gift more than the gift giver. But as one saying "its all about me and how god makes me feel". Well you have to understand there are different types of worship/praise songs, and at the same time its deffintely not wrong for one to express in music how god has blessed one and made on feel in ones choice of music. (Christian rap etc...idk about metal...just saying). I know what you mean though, but one needs to stop focusing on other ppls "flaws in music or worship" and just focus on their own. I noticed this thread everybody is pointing fingers and yes some true and some just OPINIONS for reasons of some sort. But i learned if the music is about God our lord and the lyrics are deff about our Lord our savior (that of course reflect legit worship lyrics not satanic ones) than why complain because "Oh the sound is too based" "Oh, the beats are too high" or "Well nobody else in the staduim is jumping and chanting so his prescence isnt here, so the band isnt doing a good job." Excuses and excuses. Music is Power. God created it for a reason. It is a FACT that their are different generes of christian music because not everybody is the same. At the end of the day, music is to be enjoyed, if you dont like a particular christian song for whatever reason, dont listen to it. But remember worship is not about us it is about our Lord. And we have the free will and his grace to express it different ways. |
9th July 2012, 02:54 PM
| | In on the cover up
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Reps: 1,713,291,315,093,753,856 (power: 1,713,291,315,093,767) | | Originally Posted by Gozreht Read it plenty of times. As we both agreed, it is an analogy, you just happened to try and fit literal terms into analogical meanings. My wifes hair is not like a flock of goats descending down mt gilead. And I would assume no woman would find that romantic. Especially comparing her teeth to sheep's wool and having all of her teeth. Of course Jesus didn't really climb a tree in this verse. Read the whole passage but do not do it as a literal love letter.
If it is not about Jesus then what is it about? Sex only? Two lovers vying for each other's attention? Why would it be in the Bible? But I guess this is not the thread to start this on. Want to start another? Could be interesting...
Yes, it is about sex. It is about two young lovers, and how the fall in love, and their sexual encounter. Three or four times, the woman mentions to the man not to awaken passion (have premarital sex), and then after marriage, she talks about how he is making ....excited...and she says it is okay to awaken the passion now! Can we say that this is really talking about Jesus and the Church? This is silly to think.
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16th July 2012, 02:53 PM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 16th July 2012
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Regarding music specifically.
My life has been a succession of addictions, with music being my earliest one, and to this day, the hardest to give up.
The scripture shows us satans involvement in music here......
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. (Ezekiel 28:13-14)
satan was clearly a cherub angel, created for worship, and his fall took with it, the power, the knowledge, and the will to corrupt music in every way he could find.
Half the songs sung at my church, now contain phrases and lyrics, I can find no scriptural reference for, including such lines as "from the ashes we will rise". That is satanic in origin, with the only reference in either Christendom, or the secular world of anything rising from ashes, is the phoenix, who is used in occultic and masonic circles constantly as a refrenece to lucifer. Why is it in my small community church, of spirit filled people?. The answer is because the music belongs to God, but satan is the corrupter, the defiler, the counterfeiter, and is not only in the lyrics of the obvious secular places, but infiltrates our churches with his mutterings, and peepings.
I have cut all music from my life, and have been clearer in my thoughts than I have been for more years than i care to admit. I no longer have to be listening to music in the car, I pray instead.
Just a word of encouragement too, when dealing with the saints, the professed believers in God, address the spirit behind their actions, don't be an accuser of the brethren, that too is a job satan already owns. |
19th July 2012, 09:50 AM
| | Member
 
| | Join Date: 19th June 2006
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Reps: 460,971,345,357,395 (power: 460,971,345,365) | | Originally Posted by Toynbee I prefer acapella music, though I'm not dogmatic about it.
However, whenever I've visited churches with instrumental music, I've observed several things:
1) People don't sing, they just listen.
2) Who may sing, barely does - and if they do few can hear them above the din of the band.
3) People seem more edified by what they're taking in rather than what they're giving.
4) The congregations are generally "shallow." Little in the way of fellowship; the auditorium empties quite rapidly.
5) The music isn't that spiritual, the lyrics not that edifying.
6) I tried to sing the few songs I sort of knew - but could barely hear my own voice above the din.
Don't like it.
Not impressed with it.
Do you expect to be the one who is worshipped, or is it God Almighty who is to be worshipped? Be careful about saying such things as it is God who wants praise and worship and He is more interested in the heart than the stage volume. If you prefer to worship elsewhere, do it, and leave others alone to worship as they are led to. If you don't like instruments, don't use them. Don't criticize those who do. |
19th July 2012, 10:20 AM
| | Rationalization doesn't equal rational thinking.
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| | Join Date: 25th June 2011 Location: USA
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Reps: 101,263,998,483,608,128 (power: 101,263,998,483,610) | | | Touma,
I know what you are saying but you also have ot look at the whole concept. This is about a relationship. One that is done the right way. In the physical world we are supposed to have one partner, and one only, and are supposed to remain faithful to them. Not to have pre-marital sex or put them into a situation of making them feel pressured into it. Now that can not be completely made into an analogy of Jesus and the church/His people piece by piece but still means that we have a reltionship with Christ. No other God, not wanting others, not making them jeaous, not making them feel anxious or worried about the relationship. This is a two way street relation. SO although I see exactly what you are saying just like the rest of the OT, it is a shadow of the coming Christ. Otherwise this book is bogus and should not be used as anything by a Harlequin romance novel. That I do not see as a legitimate solution. There are lessons we learn from SoS.
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Rationalization does not equal rational thinking. |
19th July 2012, 10:32 AM
| | Rationalization doesn't equal rational thinking.
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| | Join Date: 25th June 2011 Location: USA
Posts: 682
Blessings: 1,016,268
Reps: 101,263,998,483,608,128 (power: 101,263,998,483,610) | | Originally Posted by rumblefish Regarding music specifically.
My life has been a succession of addictions, with music being my earliest one, and to this day, the hardest to give up.
If you don't mind, could you explain how it was an addiction? The scripture shows us satans involvement in music here......
satan was clearly a cherub angel, created for worship, and his fall took with it, the power, the knowledge, and the will to corrupt music in every way he could find.
There is a study that says he may have been the leader of worship for the angels. And I do believe he is there corrupting music. But music is just organized sound. It's the words and ideas behind the music that he distorts. He can never distort actual true worship. If the song is sung to God and about God in an uplifting way then he can never touch it but as you say... Half the songs sung at my church, now contain phrases and lyrics, I can find no scriptural reference for,
That is your best point! including such lines as "from the ashes we will rise". That is satanic in origin, with the only reference in either Christendom, or the secular world of anything rising from ashes, is the phoenix,
Although the phrase itself is not in the Bible it can be biblical. I just don't know the rest of the song. We die. We are buried. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, but then we are resurrected, so hence we rise from the ashes. But again I don't know the rest of the song. Why is it in my small community church, of spirit filled people?. The answer is because the music belongs to God, but satan is the corrupter, the defiler, the counterfeiter, and is not only in the lyrics of the obvious secular places, but infiltrates our churches with his mutterings, and peepings.
Good question. Same here in my larger church. It's about the cukture of the church as a whole today. We have lost the main essence of what worhsip and worhsip service is all about. I have cut all music from my life, and have been clearer in my thoughts than I have been for more years than i care to admit. I no longer have to be listening to music in the car, I pray instead.
I am glad this has worked for you.
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