| Exploring Christianity A Forum for Non Christians to explore Christianity with Christians. |
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15th February 2012, 05:17 PM
| | Legend
    
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Reps: 4,446,822,502,958,666,752 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by ebia  When Jesus wanted to explain what was about to happen he didn't give a theoretical model at all - he gave them a meal.  WOW is that good - that just "hit me" |
15th February 2012, 05:31 PM
|  | Theonomikos kai Theokratos
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Reps: 1,167,314,259,883,782,400 (power: 1,167,314,259,883,792) | | Originally Posted by ShiningBecky Again with the death threats. That's not very nice you know. This is why nobody listens to christians.
Listen, if you think it's "justice" to send anyone to hell, let alone a good person who earnestly is seeking after the truth and God, then I don't think your god is worthy of worship but is a jerk.
There's nothing loving in anything you said. It's so ironic that you quote "love" but only offer hate instead.  Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order!!
Have you interacted with a member named Blueforest or Patroklos on this site?
__________________ "Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Yours is the dominion, O Lord, and You exalt Yourself as head over all." ~1 Chronicles 29:11~ |
15th February 2012, 05:45 PM
|  | Veteran
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Reps: 178,191,711,851,911,488 (power: 178,191,711,851,914) | | Originally Posted by ShiningBecky The bible was written, edited, changed and altered many times through history and we know this because there are no originals to read. Some of the stories have been disproven by scholars, scientists and archeologists. For instance Moses could not have written anything since he lived before the hebrew alphabet existed!! But you won't hear that in any church!
There could be a hell. I don't think it's fire and brimstone though. Probably a state of darkness, loneliness or whatever. I don't think a "God of love" would send anybody there, despite what your religion says. I think God loves everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs.
I see your faith is: Seeking. You will not find life in any other religion!
You are in great delusion and you are deceived  , I am praying for you. 
Yes Yahuwah loves everyone regardless of their religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean he's not loving because people end up in hell.
No the bible haven't been changed, and altered, and no it hasn't been disproven. That's lies from Satan, to confuse and mislead. You need deliverance from these delusions. It's a trap, to go on seeking what man (scientists) have to say, rather than God's word which say: 2 Timothy 3:16 Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action),
I've experienced this aswell, Satan has tried to set me up against Yahuwah the most high many times, with lies and deceit, like he himself did, which was the cause for his fall! I believe it's a common tactic for Satan to make us question Yahuwah's goodness, and so. It's a soul trap. You have to understand that Yahuwah is beyond our comprehension, and Yahushuas love for us is beyond our comprehension too!
Look at what our precious Yahushua did on the cross! So that we could come to Yahuwah! He loves us whatever we do, how can one not believe that he is love? There's no greater love than that!
__________________ "Could a mariner sit idle if he heard the drowning cry? Could a doctor sit in comfort and just let his patients die? Could a fireman sit idle, let men burn and give no hand? Can you sit at ease in Zion with the world around you CONDEMNED?" - Leonard Ravenhill (changed last word to a more proper word in my opinion.) |
15th February 2012, 06:00 PM
| | Senior Contributor
   
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by razeontherock WOW is that good - that just "hit me"
I better attribute it then - it's not my observation but Tom Wright's
__________________
"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us."
(+Desmond Tutu) |
15th February 2012, 07:23 PM
|  | bind on pick up
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Reps: 989,945,737,943,384,704 (power: 989,945,737,943,401) | | Originally Posted by ShiningBecky Wait a minute! There is actually nothing just at all about a judge killing an innocent man in place of a guilty one! If any judge of the bench did that, everyone, including you christians, would have a moral outcry! Any judge who willfully lets a convicted rapist go while sentencing an innocent non-rapist to prison or death is not fit to be a representative of justice! I don't think you honestly know what justice is, to be saying things so absurd!
Scapegoating is a horrible thing and it is an unwillingness to even take responsibility for our own actions. Every time you blame someone else for your flaws, you are scapegoating. Throwing Jesus away like some rag is morally bankrupt and totally irresponsible too!!
Atonement by substitution is your only hope for reconciliation with God, but since you reject it, what do you plan to do about your sin? |
16th February 2012, 01:46 PM
|  | Wittenberg Catholic
  
| | Join Date: 2nd October 2011
Posts: 5,985
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Reps: 1,187,850,241,548,190,976 (power: 1,187,850,241,548,198) | | I feel as though I should draw up a standard post describing the history of Satisfaction Theory and how it isn't the sole view of Christianity vis-a-vis the Atonement.
As a subscriber to Christus Victor Theory (with particular emphasis on Recapitulation and God's intimate participation in our human nature) it's getting difficult typing out nearly the same post time and again.
Here's a rough overview of differing theories of Atonement within Christianity, important if one is going to understand that Penal Substitution is not the universal position of the Christian Church and has never even been the dominant view (and is in fact a rather recent position).
-CryptoLutheran
__________________
To be crucified with Christ means to be in the business of dying. Our arms should be outstretched, unable to make a fist or be armed to injure. To be crucified is to be too busy suffering, serving, and loving everyone that we don't have time to think ill or wish one harm. "When Christ calls a man, He bids him, 'Come and die.'" (Dietrich Bonhoeffer) |
16th February 2012, 03:11 PM
| | Love is what matters, not dogma
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Reps: 10,315,047,323,951,106 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jonathan95
I have no reason to believe the god you identify in the bible is real. The bible is not evidence of anything by itself.
I think you have (christians) created a god after your own image and devices, which explains why god in the bible gets angry all the time, demands blood, gets frustrated, does not know everything, can be defeated by iron chariots and often changes his mind.
A transcendental, omniscient, omnipotent God would not do those things. How can you prove your god is real to me?
I'm listening. |
16th February 2012, 03:13 PM
| | Love is what matters, not dogma
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Reps: 10,315,047,323,951,106 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by ebia But it's in Jesus that see God most clearly.
If you want to know what God is like, then look at him. Not the way he is portrayed by any one group of Christians, or even me.
And how do we know what Jesus was like?
Do we use the gospels of Thomas or Mary Magdalene, or just the ones the church voted on in their canon? Is it the Jesus of the Calvinists, the Jesus of the Catholic church or the Jesus of the gnostic church? What about the "Christ consciousness" that people talk about?
There seem to be a lot of Jesuses around. |
16th February 2012, 03:15 PM
| | Love is what matters, not dogma
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Reps: 10,315,047,323,951,106 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by ebia You do realise that there is more than one model out there for understanding Jesus death.
When Jesus wanted to explain what was about to happen he didn't give a theoretical model at all - he gave them a meal.
It's too bad he didn't write anything. We could have had all this stuff sorted out a long time ago!! You'd think he might've known all the chaos his death would have caused with all the confusion over understanding it and all. |
16th February 2012, 03:18 PM
| | Love is what matters, not dogma
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Reps: 10,315,047,323,951,106 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by razeontherock You're right. And this is why concepts like vicarious redemption and penal substitution have their limits, and their opponents.
How about Jesus as burden bearer?
How about Christus Victor?
How 'bout Savior?
You can look up terms, but it's the simplicity of the Gospel that has the Power.
Surely you don't think He was "thrown away?"
"And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4)
He was absolutely thrown away, if you go by orthodox christianity. Just throw all your trash onto Jesus, go out and sin, and it's all dandy, right?
After all, christianity is all about faith and not works, so you can just believe and get your get out of hell free card as long as you repent before you die.
I'm quite sure every christian believes Jesus is savior. And that goes right along side saying he died to pacify the anger of god against them. | | |
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