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  #1  
Unread 12th February 2012, 04:49 AM
big sister

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Gillard's political games - fruit of unbelief?

ABC's opinion piece website 'the Drum' has been in overdrive the past few weeks about Gillard/Labor government and its inability to make any decisions and keep to them. Here is an example.
Politics without policy: the age of unbelief - The Drum Opinion - The tussle at the top of the ALP involves almost zero argument about where that party should go. (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Could Gillard's atheism have anything to with it? What moral code does she have other than "whatever it takes"?
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  #2  
Unread 12th February 2012, 05:00 AM
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I have to say, that I'm not really into political stuff. But is her party the one that wants to leagalise abortion, right up till the baby head crowns? I think so, so there's some moral code for you!! Makes me physically feel sick, that they would kill a baby being born, YUCK. We have so much praying to do, I hope she's out soon, I pray the Lord will take her out soon.
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  #3  
Unread 12th February 2012, 07:39 AM
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Time for a few facts about politics.
1. The party leader is not in charge. The decisions are made in a closed room and then once made put forward as a united front.
2. Decisions announced by people are not always what they want. One of the best examples of this is actually Tony Abbott. He used his ministerial powers to allow the use of RU486 (the morning after pill). This goes against his own beliefs and he originally was going to stop it. However the party decided otherwise so he had to allow it. So they wouldn't look bad they made it look like Abbott's decision.
3. The leader is not always the leader sometimes they are only the face. In this visual age the leader doesn't always have the right stuff for the cameras. So what happens? They put someone else in as leader while the real leader is in the background running things.
4. Mostly the media decides elections. How? They only print photos of the candidate they don't like looking tired or stressed. They start stories. They put ideas in peoples heads with opinion polls. Suddenly people are talking about it because the question was asked. Opinion polls can be manipulated by the way questions are asked.

Thats a very few basics. On the matter in the OP the coalition would not be doing any better if they were in government. They would still need support from the greens and independents. Not as many sure but still needed. If they wanted to get alot of stuff through then they too would have to make deals or look like a party that doesn't do anything. Instead of reading articles like one quoted above we would be reading how the government is not doing anything. We probably would have had another election by now. i realise many think that would be a good thing but I honestly don't know one way or the other.
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  #4  
Unread 12th February 2012, 04:07 PM
big sister

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Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
Time for a few facts about politics.
1. The party leader is not in charge. The decisions are made in a closed room and then once made put forward as a united front.
Basic group dynamics - leader sets course of action and followers take that course. Not always set in concrete like Tony Abbott's personal beliefs versus official Liberal Party abortion policies.
e.g. Murdoch and the many proven *cough* "alleged" cases of UK journalists' phone hacking to get their scandalous breaking news stories. Would they really have done that if the boss hadn't rewarded breaking news at any cost?
In general workplaces boss sets tone, values, atmosphere. In families and social groups the same happens.
2. Decisions announced by people are not always what they want. One of the best examples of this is actually Tony Abbott. He used his ministerial powers to allow the use of RU486 (the morning after pill). .... So they wouldn't look bad they made it look like Abbott's decision.
Good point. Would it have been approved if Abbott had been prime minister at the time? Of course we'll never know and I doubt if he does ever get into power that it will get overturned either.
3. The leader is not always the leader sometimes they are only the face.
Lately (especially since Rudd came into power) leader announces the good news/policies and poor spokesperson announces the bad.
4. Mostly the media decides elections. How? They only print photos of the candidate they don't like looking tired or stressed. They start stories.
Journalists and politicians depend on each other for their existance but dislike each other. It is hard to tell which one is the parasite and which one is the host at times.
Thats a very few basics. On the matter in the OP the coalition would not be doing any better if they were in government. They would still need support from the greens and independents.
We'll never know if that would have happened. If Coalition hadn't put greens before Labor in preferences perhaps they would be in power now? Oh for time machines like in those movies....

So do you believe that Gillard's atheism has nothing to do with 1. the Labor Party's inability to make any decisions and stick to them no matter how unpopular 2. willingness to lie/mislead/distract at every opportunity 3. choose policies on what will get the most votes in short-term instead of long-term decisions?
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  #5  
Unread 12th February 2012, 06:58 PM
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Its not just Gillards. The nations atheism is the cause. The slow but sure attack of satan on humanity is evident in all political decisions.
I question Christians standards when the right to watching TV shows becomes SO IMPORTANT.
When the bible in the Christian home isnt nearly as important as Desperate Housewifes, we get a good indication of the moral decline of everything.
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  #6  
Unread 12th February 2012, 07:09 PM
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OnlyBelieve, abortion was available throughout Howard/Liberal government's time in office as well you know. Loophole is if mother's health -whether physical or mental - is at risk.

BorntoWatch, mankind's sinful nature is what is responsible for such disgusting material on Australian TV. There would be a lot of self-proclaimed christians watching that stuff. Genuine 'there is no God' atheists are a minority group.
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Unread 13th February 2012, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by joey_downunder View Post
So do you believe that Gillard's atheism has nothing to do with 1. the Labor Party's inability to make any decisions and stick to them no matter how unpopular 2. willingness to lie/mislead/distract at every opportunity 3. choose policies on what will get the most votes in short-term instead of long-term decisions?
Absolutely it has nothing at all to do with it. A true christian does not genreally get far in politics because to be in a leadership type role you have to make deals and do all kinds of things that a true christian wouldn't do. occasionly you will get one that will get in a safe seat so it doesn't matter much. Like Harry Edwards who started the christian Prayer breakfasts for politicians and staff at parliament house. he would never have got elected if he hadn't been in a safe seat.
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Last edited by TheDag; 13th February 2012 at 01:44 AM.
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Unread 13th February 2012, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by joey_downunder View Post
OnlyBelieve, abortion was available throughout Howard/Liberal government's time in office as well you know. Loophole is if mother's health -whether physical or mental - is at risk.
i think financial stress was also in there. it was also if the doctor thought it might be the case. This meant that anyone who wanted could get an abortion for any reason including because they wanted to. After all how are you going to prove in court what the doctor was or wasn't thinking.

Originally Posted by joey_downunder View Post
BorntoWatch, mankind's sinful nature is what is responsible for such disgusting material on Australian TV. There would be a lot of self-proclaimed christians watching that stuff. Genuine 'there is no God' atheists are a minority group.
Wonder who is the largest minority. The genuine there is no God athiests or the genuine christians? i think the christians might have it but not by a great deal.
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  #9  
Unread 14th February 2012, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDag View Post
Wonder who is the largest minority. The genuine there is no God athiests or the genuine christians? i think the christians might have it but not by a great deal.
If low levels of church attendance in Australia are anything to go by then Dawkin's disciples probably outnumber genuine christians. Of course not every genuine christian can attend church regularly though, however a visiting USA youth pastor said an interesting thing at my church last year.

He said that in the USA there is a social pressure to attend church that Australians don't have. That is why there seems to be more (adult) christians who are serious about their faith in Australian churches because they usually actually want to be there to worship God. Whether what that pastor said was completely true or not I don't know. I try not to be cynical but it's hard.....
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  #10  
Unread 14th February 2012, 05:51 AM
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[quote=joey_downunder;59791367]OnlyBelieve, abortion was available throughout Howard/Liberal government's time in office as well you know. Loophole is if mother's health -whether physical or mental - is at risk.

Yes, I know this, but the new law wanted, abortion until head crowns, mother can abort for NO REASON. loop hole not needed. It was major news when Gillard came in. Was on christian marriage newsletter.
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